In this episode of "She's Wild," host Nancy Surak interviews Melissa Zornitta, Executive Director of Hillsborough County City-County Planning Commission. Melissa delves into her planning career, underscoring the dynamic nature of plans and the challenges in balancing redevelopment and suburban growth. As head of long-range planning for Hillsborough County, she navigates comprehensive planning for diverse jurisdictions on a regional scale. Melissa underscores the significance of regional coordination and long-term visioning in guiding growth within the evolving community. The interview explores the tangible impacts of planning decisions, advocating for adaptive planning to address evolving trends. Melissa's career trajectory is traced, highlighting the role of professional organizations, especially her pivotal involvement in the American Planning Association (APA). Her journey, starting from an internship and culminating in the role of chapter president, underscores the value of such associations in career development.
In this episode of "She's Wild," host Nancy Surak interviews Melissa Zornitta, Executive Director of Hillsborough County City-County Planning Commission. Melissa discusses her planning career, emphasizing the evolving nature of plans and the challenges in balancing redevelopment with suburban growth. As the head of long-range planning for Hillsborough County, she oversees comprehensive planning for multiple jurisdictions on a regional level.
In this interview, Melissa highlights the importance of regional coordination and long-term visioning for guiding growth in a large, evolving community like Hillsborough County. She shares insights on the tangible impacts of planning decisions on communities and stresses the need for adaptive planning to address changing trends.
The episode also explores Melissa's career growth, emphasizing the value of professional organizations. Melissa started in planning through an internship, enjoying the policy and local government aspects. Her involvement in the American Planning Association (APA) played a crucial role in her career progression, providing leadership opportunities and skill development through volunteering at local and state levels, culminating in her role as chapter president.
Connect with Nancy:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/nancysurak
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nancysurak/
Website: www.nancysurak.com
Connect with Melissa:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissa-zornitta-4b03897/
The Planning Commission https://planhillsborough.org/
Melissa's Podcast Recommendation: Harvard Business Review Women at Work https://hbr.org/2018/01/podcast-women-at-work
She’s Wild Sound Production by: Luke Surak, Surak Productions: surakproductions@gmail.com
Nancy Surak 00:01
Hello, welcome to She's Wild, the podcast for women in land and development. I'm your host, Nancy Surak. For almost two decades, I have been a land broker on the west coast of Florida, immersed in some remarkable commercial real estate deals. She's wild is all about professional women in the land development, and commercial real estate industries. We are dedicated to advancing their success. Please join me weekly as we explore some inspiring stories of women who are reshaping the communities that they live work in plan all across North America. Hello, welcome back to she's wild. The podcasts are women and land and development. Today's guest is Melissa or Zornitta, the Executive Director for Hillsborough County's Planning and Zoning Commission. Melissa, welcome to She's wild, I'm excited to have you here. i It's not every day that I get to have somebody on the government side or on the planning side of our world, join me. I've known you for several years. And I'm just really thrilled that you've said yes to come on to tell us a little bit more about yourself, your career and how you came to your current position. So welcome to She's Wild. With that, I'd like for you to just tell me a little bit more about you and your current role.
Melissa Zornitta 01:22
Thank you so much for having me. I am the Executive Director of the Hillsborough County Planning Commission, which serves as the Long Range Planning Organization for all four local governments here in Hillsborough County. So we do the comprehensive planning, looking out at least 20 years for the City of Tampa, Temple Terrace, Plant City and the unincorporated county, which makes us a little bit unique that we do this for multiple jurisdictions and can kind of look beyond their boundaries, to see how the land use the infrastructure, the transportation are all fitting together. And our agency also supports the transportation planning organization, which similarly does the long range transportation planning that guides how we spend state and federal dollars locally, in our area.
Nancy Surak 02:19
Awesome. So how, how did you originally choose planning as a career path?
Melissa Zornitta 02:25
I wish I could say it was really well planned out. It was not. I was I grew up in Virginia, outside of DC and was really a political science government geek growing up, my dad had worked for the federal government, and so spent a lot of time really enjoying politics and thought that that was the direction that my career was going to go in, but happened to get a volunteer internship while I was in college, at the local government, where I was studying and they put me in the planning department. And so it was just sort of happenstance that I found out that this was even a career and just sort of fit the niche of it. I liked politics, but I really liked policy, I really liked the local government approach of being closer to where things actually are implemented. And so that all just really appealed to me.
Nancy Surak 03:25
So I know from looking at your LinkedIn bio, that you studied, I think it was a William and Mary, correct?
Melissa Zornitta 03:34
Yes.
Nancy Surak 03:35
And then you at some point came down to Florida. What pulled you down here originally?
Melissa Zornitta 03:41
Well, I can I wish it was a really like, intellectual answer. But there, we had a really awful winter. The year I was a senior in college. And so all of the schools that I looked at for a master's in planning, were in the south and Florida State stood out as being a great school for policy planning, as opposed to some planning programs are more engineer oriented or more design. And I wanted that policy aspect. So yeah, that once I was in Florida, I was hooked. And I've been here ever since. And to help that I met my husband to be at FSU. And so, you know, we both wanted to say in Florida, so Florida is a great place for planners to so that helps
Nancy Surak 04:31
Well, especially during the period of time while you've been here, right? Like it's been just always like a growing state. But I feel like the last 20 something years has been just crazy.
Melissa Zornitta 04:44
Yeah. And having a state mandate to have that every local government has to have a comprehensive plan is unique is that's not something that occurs everywhere across the United States, and then that the statute goes further to say The new development has to be consistent with the Comprehensive Plan gives it more meaning. So that made makes Florida more attractive from a planning standpoint.
Nancy Surak 05:10
So I always like to interject and say, you know, well, this is what happened with me at this point in my career. And I can't help it here either, because I spent some time in Tallahassee as well, but not as an FSU student. And I was a little bit of a poli sci geek, I'd never studied it. I never went to school for that. It was just sort of something that my parents were very much grassroots, like my mother, when I was a young girl was a door knocker for political campaigns very actively involved, you know, at the local level. And so I grew up watching that. And I was like, I don't ever want to be in politics. But I always paid attention to it. But I lived in Tallahassee probably around the same I don't know if our I can't remember when you were there, but probably around the same time. And what brought me originally to Florida was a graduate program degree as well. But I wasn't okay, just school there, and then moved to Tallahassee for my first job out of school. So there you go.
Melissa Zornitta 06:10
Nice. That's cool.
Nancy Surak 06:12
And I love to tell people, especially given our current insurance situation here in the state of Florida, that my first job was what we all know now as Citizens. But it was nine months out of like the creation, like the it was the first year it was created.
Melissa Zornitta 06:30
Wow, how interesting
Nancy Surak 06:32
Talk about policy wowa and private public stuff. But anyway, I digress. It's not about me, it's about you. So I love that you came down. So you came down to Florida to get your master's degree. And then you just said, This is great. I'm going to stay in the state. And you ended up south of Tampa originally.
Melissa Zornitta 06:51
Yeah, yeah, my first job in planning was in Charlotte County, which is just south of Sarasota. And was very small department. So there were only three of us in the planning department, you could kind of get your hands in a lot of different things, which was fun, and helped me figure out some of the things that I liked better doing and things that I didn't like doing, but Charlotte County's. It's heavily retirees and my husband and I were not at the time in our life where we wanted to only thing open after 10 o'clock to be Denny's or Walmart. So that's what ended up bringing us up to the Tampa Bay area, because we ended up coming up here a lot for, you know, cultural, social things anyway. And I really liked the area.
Nancy Surak 07:45
Yes, I noticed that. And I was wondering if that's why you were like, you started there? And then you said, No, I need something more active. So you mentioned just now that there were things that you were able to learn on that first job, things that you really liked, things that you didn't like so much. What is it that you love the most about what you do,
Melissa Zornitta 08:05
I really love the fact that I can see change in the community, from what I do, which is sometimes hard as a long range planner, to see that. But in our agency, we get to review zoning applications and see how they are consistent with the comprehensive plan and moving that longer range plan and vision forward. So particularly now, after I've been with the agency for more than 20 years, I can see a lot of things that have changed because of our influence. Sometimes it's things that didn't happen, because we said no. And, and so if that is really cool now to be able to see and know that 20 years from now, I'll be able to see even more influence of what we're doing. At the time in that first job. I think I was really more just figuring out. I didn't really want to be heavily focused transportation, I didn't necessarily want to be doing, you know, they they had us doing permitting stuff and environmental issues. I mean, I had to maintain their website, there was a lot of stuff that like it was just all hands on deck. And I wanted to I think be in a place where I could focus a little bit more on one area, as opposed to being a jack of all trades. It comprehensive planning still, to some degree is covers a wide gamut of stuff because we have elements on housing and infrastructure, but it's not dealing with quite all the levels of it which it is helpful and long getting to see the change in the community and feeling like I'm making a difference.
Nancy Surak 10:06
Yeah, I, I tell people a lot, that there really is nothing like driving down the highway and knowing that I had involvement in a project that is now like a living, breathing community, regardless of what it is, if it's multifamily, or single family or a big master plan community to know that at some point, my fingerprint was left there. Yeah, you know, and I tell people, because I go, I'm not the developer, I'm not the one making those decisions. But I'm one of the first people in the story setting. And I will create, like the marketing mind, I have, I will create the story of who I think eventually will either live there or work or shop because I, you love politics with so we like politics, really love to people watch. Yeah, and that is something that like at the other end, I'm like, like, I was part of that. Yeah, you know, I take one credit for that stuff, you know, which is, yeah, it is really cool.
Melissa Zornitta 11:09
And, and sometimes it's little things that, you know, all the way that we added some additional buffering, or we had the building designed in this way, made that project work. And otherwise, the neighbors were completely against it. And that never would have gotten approved. And but look how that that ended up making sort of a seamless part of the community. And now, those people don't have to drive as far to get to the, you know, the doctor or the drugstore, whatever it might be. And so it's sometimes the little things that have the biggest impact. And that has been really interesting to see over my career. And something I tell a lot of planning students is, you know, and in planning school, you get taught these big theories of how you're going to change the community. And, you know, most of the time, that's not what we're ending up working on as planners, and it's like these little incremental things, but it all adds up to something bigger. And that's, that's really cool.
Nancy Surak 12:16
Yeah, yeah. I 100% agree with that. So you've touched we both have touched on this a little bit, but how much from a political standpoint, on a scale from one to 10? How much does politics play a role in what you guys do?
Melissa Zornitta 12:36
If 10 is the highest, I'd say it's a 10, particularly at my level. So, you know, when I was a planner, reviewing zoning cases or amendments to the plan, probably not so much. But ultimately, any of those recommended, all we do as planners is make a recommendation. We're putting forward the best information and our professional opinion. All of the decisions are made by the politicians, the local elected officials. So ultimately, everything is political, if it's going to get approved or not get approved. Now in my role, I'm less than those day to day reviews, but more in the how are we going to get the updates to certain policies that need to happen to reflect changing trends and things that we need to address? How are we going to get that those recommendations move forward? And that is definitely a political equation. But even if it is just how do we bring all the stakeholders together and get their input? Try to arrive at some consensus. All of that is political in one sense or the other?
Nancy Surak 13:54
Yeah, I would say that, you know, we have a lot of discussion in our business about nimbyism, not in my backyard, people not wanting certain uses or certain projects near them. And I have to give it to you guys. I sit on these public hearings, I listened to them I sometimes attend in person in certain municipalities. Hillsborough County does a great job, because you can watch a lot of it. Not all municipalities have that. So I will go and sit in the audience. And I inevitably I'm like, I don't know how they do it. Because I would not have the patience to hear some of the commentary that you guys are subjected to, or that our elected officials. So I'd love to know, just from your viewpoint. You know, you're talking about putting together a 20 year plan. You're talking about trends. We're sitting at the end of 2023. And we all know what happened three and a half years ago. You know, it's almost four years coming up very soon for COVID. And I changed a lot in a very quick period of time. How do you balance all of that? I mean, that is like, that's not just a regular juggler.
Melissa Zornitta 15:05
It's funny because one of the things that we used to have here at the office was a picture artist, a picture of a juggler. And that is sort of a good description of what we do as planners trying to balance it all. And, and it's not always in balance. And I think that's just, you know, it's good to acknowledge that there's no perfect. And if we let perfect be the enemy of good, we wouldn't get anything move forward. So we try to put the pieces together that we can, and then where we see there's still a gap in the puzzle, we come back to it later. I view the plan, not as something that we do it and it's should sit on a shelf static and not change. But it really needs to always be evolving, because that's what our community is doing. And so something like COVID, and the fact that now, the demand for different uses. And now we have, you know, Amazon as our primary retailer, as opposed to brick and mortar stores. A lot of times people say, well, the planners don't have the right plan for all this. Well, I don't know that any of us could have anticipated all of that. But if we're making our our plan a living document that changes along the way, then we can adapt a little bit better to those things. One of the things that we're been working on right now is some bigger updates to the county in the city of Tampa's plans, because they haven't been doing that as much. And and that's harder, that ultimately has more potential conflict in it. Because we're making bigger policy changes, as opposed to the smaller incremental ones. So I'm hopeful once we get past this, then we'll be able to have more frequent changes. And that addressed those concerns as they come up. But it is challenging, because sometimes what we know as planners we've been taught in school or we read or the best practices are we see happening in other cities, you know, the community, nobody likes change. And so they react really badly to initially. And so I view a large part of our job as being educators of the public, of how these things have worked other places, how it doesn't necessarily result in something bad. And, and also that, we might have to accept that we don't get everything that we're proposing in that first bite at the apple, and that we just have to come back later and revisit it because there are things that we last updated the county's plan and 2008. And there are a few things that I have gone back now and looked at what we drafted then and said, Hey, this, this will work now. Because now you know, maybe we were just a little ahead of our time thinking about this stuff. And now it'll it'll work. I find that with this things tend the issues tend to come back around. There's another chance to work on it.
Nancy Surak 18:14
When you're working on this massive plan for the region are putting all the puzzle pieces together. What are some of the biggest challenges you're seeing right now in terms of land planning trends, whether they're here or not? Like what are you kind of seeing across your industry? And what do you guys, you know, really focused on?
Melissa Zornitta 18:35
Yeah, yeah, housing is huge. I think not just here, in Tampa, Hillsborough County, but across the country, we're not keeping up with the demand. The affordability is an issue. And we've really, I think a lot of that has been because we've sort of segmented the housing industry into either you're a single family subdivision or you're a big multifamily developer. There's a whole lot in between that that historically has been a part of our communities. You can see it in some of the older neighborhoods, you know, small townhomes, duplexes, things like that, that we really got away from so but now it's harder to infuse that back into what are often very established single family neighborhoods. So it's, that's a big challenge. There's definitely in our area of big trying to balance between focusing on redevelopment, which we're starting to see quite a bit of in the city of Tampa, but also recognizing the need that we still want to have the choice for people to live in a more suburban environment. That's something that a lot of people moved to this area to get away from, you know, the hustle and bustle of New York or wherever, and they want that At and we want to continue to provide those choices here in Hillsborough County. But the eyes, you know, the land opportunities for that suburban choice in particular are very few and far between. So how can we create some more of that in a way that's well planned out, and has the infrastructure to go along with it, that's probably the other really big issue is that our infrastructures not kept up with growth. And when we've been going out and having community meetings, that is the biggest pinch point that people don't, they don't want to sit in traffic, they don't really have any other choice, because we haven't designed our community to be perhaps as walkable or bikable or have transit. So they're stuck with a car and and the infrastructure just hasn't kept up. So that's a challenge because it most places where they're complaining about it. It's either really expensive or not feasible to widen all the roadways. So we got to come up with another way to get people around.
Nancy Surak 21:12
You talk about transportation is a big part of that infrastructure. But it's not just that, right. It's water and sewer.
Melissa Zornitta 21:21
It's schools. Yeah, yeah.
Nancy Surak 21:24
So talk to me about kind of like when you guys are looking at this plan, what sort of data do you look at to say like, this is where I'm just more curious than anything else? Yes, I'm such a geek. How do you anticipate where those coming? How those communities are going to evolve over the next 10 15 20 years? That's a long time.
Melissa Zornitta 21:45
That is a long time. And we do we update our projections, at least every five years? Because we know that the trends are always changing. And that and we want to reflect what is so on the ground? And so that's the first layer of data is what what exists, what is vacant and might be able to be built on? What is the plan allowed to be built there? And do we think that that might change that the plan might change in that area? And by and large? I would say most of the areas, the answer's no, there might be a few areas where we know, okay, the plan is going to change. So we might be able to accommodate a little bit more growth, or maybe that area is starting to change from industrial to residential. So we and then we put to get there, we look at demographic trends, like the number of people per household and where people are working, and what areas will be attractive to grow first. So the plate when we have the opportunity to make a choice, we try to put people where we think they're going to it's going to grow first, where there's existing infrastructure, where it's, you know, the schools still have capacity. But some of it we we lean on partners in the development community to tell us this is where it's really marketable. This is where it you know, it's hot in South Hillsborough County, and people are already starting to look at Manatee County. So you know, the more you're going to need to fill in there before you fill in, in a different direction. So we definitely try to get input from our partners in the different industries, to give us some input on what they're seen as well, because because we don't have all the answers. So we try and put all that together. And then once we have the projections, and we sort of geographically distribute where that'll go, we'll vet that out with with, with different with different folks that the four jurisdictions cert, certainly. And then we're always looking at how that's getting tweaked. So Plant City decides they want to, you know, have an annexation plan in a different area that changes all the projections, and we kind of retool everything again, it's a very iterative process. And we're only kind of looking at a snapshot in time. Because some things are changing. Like, I don't know that we fully know all the impacts of COVID, for example, like, what's that going to? I don't think we've seen it play out, how's that going to impact the need for office space? I would predict that it's going to be less demand for office space. But how much and you know, we got to kind of see how that trend continues to play out.
Nancy Surak 24:39
Yeah, I think back in 2020, so not in the heat of COVID, but still in COVID. It was probably third or fourth quarter. I was saying things like we really need to conduct these studies, like people aren't going back to the office. What's going to happen this is never going to be the same blah, blah, blah. And I have If I have an office, I work from home sometimes. So I am that quintessential hybrid employee, I have been out since the 90s. Like, wow, it really like I can point to a job when I was pregnant for my son 24 years ago, that I work two days from home, and I had a shared office space. Two days. And then one day for like a team meeting, I was at a company that was like lightyears ahead doing that in the late 90s. So, you know, like, we would mean another person in my similar role, we would share our desktop. Two days I was there, it would just fold her pictures down. And the two days she was there, she would fold my pictures down. So Oh, my gosh, and one day a week, we would all be together in meetings. Yeah, beam stuff. But it's been like that my entire career, really, for the most part for me. So I, you know, COVID happened. I was like, okay, so what, like, I'll just work from home. I'm always I've always been to be able to do that. Right. But I was saying, you know, when we fight to protect certain land uses, like Office and industrial, because those are important job creation centers. Have, it's like, it's different. Now. I kept jumping up, I kept seeing people, is anybody doing an economic study of like, what this projection is? Nobody was doing it. And I was like, and I'm with you, I agree with you. Like, I still don't think we really know. Like, I think there's a lot I'm watching my two young adults, there's a big huge wave towards this remote environment. And I don't personally think that that's got lasting, I think lower will end up is a true hybrid situation.
Melissa Zornitta 26:39
Yeah, I think so too. I mean, that's how our office is operating. And we find a lot of benefits from it. And it also, it really does help with our transportation issue, too. Yes, like, it is a great way to reduce the congestion coming from all of this growth, to have people on staggered schedules, and not all trying to get to downtown Tampa, you know, at the same time every day. So that's huge. You know, they're also I happen to be at a community meeting in Valrico on Saturday. And there was a gentleman there talking about drone deliveries from the Walmart, there in in in Valrico go and how we needed to plan corridors for the drones to go so that they weren't going in people's yards. And I was like okay, but those are that's how quickly technology is changing and changing how we use land, how we get around. It's, it's a challenge to balance what is needed in the here and now and what could be in the future. And we don't even know everything that could be in the future. So that's part of what makes it fun and exciting.
Nancy Surak 27:52
And constantly changing, right? Like your job is like every year is different.
Melissa Zornitta 27:57
Oh yeah, for sure. That is not, not, don't look.
Nancy Surak 28:04
I tell I tell a lot of people to I'm like, you know, I'm, like really excited, I'll be working like a particular area or region, or some market and I'm like killing it. And I'll leave for the next shiny object, right? Like somebody's pulling me in a different direction. And I'll turn around, I'll look back like 18 months later, and I'm like, Oh, my God, I was right there. And I just got distracted somewhere else. And like I could have did all those land deals. I was like I was I was at the door of all of them. And wow, I missed it within two months. And I'm like, Oh my God, that person kept telling me they would never sell and they literally went under contract, like 90 days later.
Melissa Zornitta 28:46
Oh my gosh, that's kind of a frustrating.
Nancy Surak 28:49
It is a challenge. Yeah. But you know, it's also kind of like the same thing. Right? It's like, it's constantly evolving and changing.
Melissa Zornitta 28:58
It really is. Yeah,
Nancy Surak 29:00
I think we're gonna have another evolution of that. I think there was a little bit of a I won't say too lot. There's a little bit of a pause. Not crazy pause. Like my husband is a civil engineer in the region. He's still crazy busy. And I'm like, things, the capital markets are affecting things, you know, so that allows like people in your role to take a deep breath and go okay, where? Where next? You know?
Melissa Zornitta 29:29
Yeah, it well, it is for us because one of the things that's the hardest is that we want to be proactive about planning ahead. But then if you're having to constantly react to the things coming in the door, it leaves less time for that. So we've tried to kind of make sure part of our staff is always has an eye towards that proactive. What are the policies, what are the trends that we need to be addressing but it's certainly is hard to manage the time and, and ultimately, these things come before the elected officials and they're focused on the fires that need to be put out the the immediate development approvals that are needed. So it's hard to get their attention sometimes it's hard to get the community's attention for the future, because everyone is so focused on the here and now.
Nancy Surak 30:23
Well, I think even when we were talking about coming on, we were talking about some of your, your public hearings that you guys conduct through the planning commission. And I was like, oh, yeah, come on, sometimes. But then I get busy. And yeah, and I think I even said to you, like a few weeks ago, like, wow, like there really should be more folks in the industry, engage actively engaged on some of those calls and some of those meetings because otherwise, you only hear from whoever the loudest folks are in the room. And unfortunately, sometimes it's, it's that NIMBY that we're talking about earlier, yeah, there's a lot of voices not being heard, because people are living their lives.
Melissa Zornitta 30:59
Yeah, and we know that and as planners, we recognize where there are voids and try to seek that out. And pull those voices in. And balance out what is the loudest isn't always mean that there's more people who feel that way. There are a lot of people who care about their community. But they're not upset about anything. So they're, they're not coming to the public meetings. So one of the biggest challenges, I think, right we have right now is getting, getting to those people, getting them engaged, getting a better barometer on how the true cross section of our community feels, and not just one segment who's willing to spend the time showing up at a public hearing, because that's not represented representative of everyone. And it's certainly I think, over the my tenure as a planner, become increasingly hard to get people's attention, because there's so many demands on their time. And it's also become increasingly polarized, it used to be that there was a lot of appreciation for people who work for local government, not always viewed as a positive thing, when I show up at a public meeting. And then people have already formed very polar opposite opinions about things. And one of the things that I would say I do love about this job is when we can get people to sit down and talk about what really matters to them, and what they really care about, and then find those kernels of shared agreement, and then start to build from there. And there have been a couple of times in the update of the county plan where we've sort of been able to do that and bring people together. And it's just, that's very rewarding to help people see, like, developers aren't the enemy developers are the way that these things happen. And the ways that a lot of this, your community gets built, you need to find where you have some shared values with them and build from there, or the neighbors or you've been feuding with or whomever it is.
Nancy Surak 33:19
Yeah, I think even in one of one of the more recent ones I've participated in, there was that discussion between me and someone else, right, I live in the urban center, and I'm a land broker, like, that's how I make my living. And my husband who I mentioned before, is a civil engineer like we're in this industry, and we're like, oh, pro growth. Yeah, the same time, I also recognize that that voice of the person who's like, I don't want that in my name, right? We don't want that in this region. That is equally important. Like I can respect that. Yeah, nod but then I'm like, okay, so you don't want it there. But if it's still coming, where should it go? You know, and have those like, in sometimes just shut up and listen to people, too?
Melissa Zornitta 33:59
Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes, then you can find that it's not really the use or the project that they're that upset about? It's something else. Yeah, it's, it's the traffic or it's, you know, how the parking is going to be handled or that they're really worried about, you know, the noble ease, and the light that's going to come from it. And those are all things that then can be addressed. And something can be done about. Yeah, yeah.
Nancy Surak 34:32
To last week, or within the last two weeks, one, actually they were both last week. The first one was in a different municipality, not on our side of the bay, over in Pinellas County. And we at the pnz meeting, we had, I think, four neighbors that came out pretty aggressively against a particular project. Like, I think it was a lack of understanding more than anything else. During that meeting. They were able, like you said, They got pretty educated. But the neighbor Yeah, one of the neighbors came back to the final vote last week, and spoke in favor of the project and for the 1st time, may be in my career, I actually had a neighbor take time out of their lives, and they came to the podium, and they introduced themselves gave their address. And they were like, we're actually here in support. And I almost fell out of my chair, because I thought for sure, he was going to continue to say the same talking points. Like I literally walked in the building with this gentleman. I was joking around with him, you know, because, but I was like, Oh, wow, that, and then it made me just sort of step back while I was watching it happen. And I thought, you know, kudos to the team that came out at the original meeting, because they really did go out of their way to explain. Yeah, very thoughtful questions that were asked by that particular Planning and Zoning Commission that helped that explanation go a little bit deeper, we stayed after and talked with I mean, it wasn't 50 neighbors was for real estate, even as the broker and said, hey, you know, because I was engaged with, like, the Property Owners Association, as well. And I was like, hey, like, I'm gonna bring back all these concerns I want you guys to know. And I think it was a matter of they felt like they were heard.
Melissa Zornitta 36:17
Absolutely. Absolutely. Nowadays, I think that, that people don't get very much of that. And so they really want to know that somebody's listening. And to the extent that you're able to read it, you're doing something about it, and you might not be able to do everything, but that you were able to listen and maybe make some changes in response to what they said. That's huge. And, and, you know, to your credit, not every developer does that. And, but but I find that those that do are so much more successful. And yeah, it just goes a long way. And the more we can get that baked into our plans, where there's some agreement at the outset that this is where growth is going to go or this is where we're going to look at some new expansion areas, then then people like predictability, they like knowing what's coming. They like knowing that their voice was heard and that they got to shape that plan in some way.
Nancy Surak 37:27
Yeah, maybe they're looking at it from the same lens that we both are right, they want to know that they are they have an impact?
Melissa Zornitta 37:33
Yeah, I think so. You know, the hardest part is reaching people and letting them know that they have the opportunities to participate in these decisions. And whether they're for or against, we really do want to hear from them.
Nancy Surak 37:49
Of course, of course. So I'm going to shift a little bit to not so much kind of what we both do in our careers, but extracurricular activities. So you and I met through the Urban Land Institute, through the women's leadership. But I also know that you are incredibly active or have been in the American Planning Association. Tell me a little bit more about that organization, and what that has done for you in your career growth as well.
Melissa Zornitta 38:19
The APA or American Planning Association, really, I think, was very instrumental for me in helping me progress in my career because it gave me volunteer opportunities. It's a professional organization of planners, across the country, from public private transportation, airport planners, you know, health planners, all varieties. And we have if you're a certified planner, you have to get a certain number of credits and that sort of thing to maintain your certification. So the APA is the primary vehicle for all of that. So I had the opportunity to get involved here locally in the Tampa area in Florida has such a large population of planners that we have broken the state down in different sections. So I volunteered there and was the section chair and then progressed and became involved with the state level and was the state chapter president, which in that capacity then even enabled me to go to national meetings where all the chapters met and worked on policy and different issues together. And it just was a fantastic networking opportunity. I tell everyone starting out, get involved in your professional organization. And it doesn't have to be APA. It can be UlI or the Congress of New Urbanism or whatever, you know, whatever it is, I've made great friends that way. I've had leadership opportunities when I didn't necessarily have the opportunity to supervise or manage people here on the job. I was able to manage volunteers. And that gave me great skills that I've been able to translate into when I did have those opportunities. So it's just been a great experience all around. It's why I love being involved in Uli, because then that has cross collaboration with other professions. And I think that's so important that we don't as planners, I love APA. But it's planners talking to planners. So we're kind of preaching to the choir a lot of times. And Uli has broaden that and brought in other perspectives. And, and you know, now when you talk about the capital markets, I know what that means and things like that. But I, as a planner might not have seen that side of the equation as much. So I think both organizations have been very beneficial to me in my career. So yeah, I'm very passionate about our team here. Getting professional development, always seeing growth and being involved in those organizations being involved in community organizations, because we need to be representing and understanding what's going on, where, where we live, where we work, and then within our profession, keeping up with what's going on.
Nancy Surak 41:19
100%. So quick question, as I'm thinking about it, yeah, it's not on my list. If it's a land broker, or anyone for that matter, if we see something in planning, or zoning, or a policy that we're like, ah, that is stifling. Should we bring that to you guys's attention?
Melissa Zornitta 41:39
Yes please, please, please. Yes.
Nancy Surak 41:43
We know, in theory, however, in the real world, this is how this is tending to play out. You'd want to Yes, okay, good. I have an example. I need to point out.
Melissa Zornitta 41:55
Okay, please do because that's, I mean, we don't we're not building projects. So we don't necessarily know the unintended consequences of what's been written. And I think that's so beneficial when we because we're not meaning to make it harder. And maybe there are some places where that is the case.
Nancy Surak 42:18
Or where they make sense. Right.
Melissa Zornitta 42:20
Right, right. And if it doesn't make sense, we definitely want to get in there and try to fix it.
Nancy Surak 42:26
I'll follow up with you offline on that. But it really has to do with something that was put into place probably in the 80s. So it is crazy out of date. Yeah, you know, and it's just sort of like, folks still want to shuffle through the paper files, which is fine. I keep paper files myself, but to pull out things that are 45 or 50 years old, like, and we just start, like new, like what, you know, and some of these things haven't been touched in decades. Because then now that finally the planning is, you know, or the demand is catching up with that particular. Yeah. You know, or vice versa, it's more inland and or more infill, and it's like the land use is not, it's not what it should be. Because right hasn't been addressed in decades.
Melissa Zornitta 43:14
So yeah, I think, you know, one of the things that definitely is a challenge here in Tampa, Hillsborough, but also in a lot of other communities is that because it is hard to make changes, a lot of times things are sort of stuck in a more suburban approach. Whereas our thinking has moved to things that are more urban, or we're stuck in rural and things are starting to evolve to suburban. And so as the community grows, the that's that's why our plans need to be more nimble. They need to be changed more frequently to keep up with those things. And not just the plants and the codes and all the regulations that go into insurance.
Nancy Surak 44:00
Yeah, and that's what then, you know, I just want to be clear that the example that I'll bring is true, what I would consider a true issue like its problem. Yeah. Yeah. And it affects more than just like one property. You know, it's not something where I'm like, I can't get by project approved. Wawawa. Right. It's not that it's, yeah. Wow, this is like a policy that was put into effect somewhere in the 80s. And it really, I can see it in this particular area. There. The community has not really properly evolved. And I, I believe it's related to land use, personally. But anyway, final question, then we'll do our Rapid Round. Planning as a career must be. I think, by far I see more women in planning and land development than in any other role. Why do you think that is?
Melissa Zornitta 44:55
That's a great question. And I agree with you. I feel like The profession has been more welcoming to women, at least locally, I found that there were more women in the positions of power. So that made it more attractive for me to stay working here and to want to follow their lead. I also think that that women are very, very good at multitasking. And that's kind of what planners do is that we're like trying to do a lot of different things and balance a lot of different things at the same time. And when I think about my female friends, and just their lives, that's what they're doing is, you know, they're juggling being a mom, a wife of whatever their profession is a volunteer all the things. So, to some degree, I think as as, as women were well suited for that.
Nancy Surak 45:58
Well, I want to congratulate you on that, I was actually looking at your website. And I was like, Man, she's got a lot of women on her staff. Kudos. Because you know, that's really important to me. And just like we were talking about our friends who may not want things in their neighborhoods, I'm just a huge proponent of having multi voices around a table, I think it's important, I think it's the best thing you can do for your neighborhood, or your community or your region is to hear from a little bit of everybody, like, what do you want this to look like so that you can create the best life, the best solution for as many people as possible?
Melissa Zornitta 46:30
Absolutely, absolutely.
Nancy Surak 46:32
But yeah, so thank you for that. So I wrap up every interview with three what I call rapid questions are never really rapid. But do you have a book or a podcast that you have either listened to recently, or read recently, that you love that you think you'd like to recommend? Here?
Melissa Zornitta 46:54
From a professional standpoint, the things that I lean on the most is the Harvard Business Review has a women's oriented podcast that I really enjoy and listening to that that's been a good one.
Nancy Surak 47:08
Yeah that's, that's a great recommendation, I listened to some of their episodes here and there, and they're always really well thought out. So thank you for that. And then, let's see if you gave some advice earlier, but if someone were to call you and say, Hey, I'm 22, I'm just getting into the world of land and development or planning or government. Do you have any advice for me? What would you say to that person?
Melissa Zornitta 47:34
There are a lot of different directions, their career could go. And at that age to explore as many of those directions as you can, whether it is through different jobs, volunteering, being involved in different professional organizations to learn about all the different options, because there are so many different ways you can take that, at that age. Yeah, take advantage of all of them. And then then there's lots of time to hone in and specialize and, you know, become an expert in something, but you don't have to do that right away.
Nancy Surak 48:14
I love that advice. Because I didn't become a land broker until I was 35. So there are a lot of other things before that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then finally, where can people keep up with what you guys are doing both the Planning Commission and with you, in your profession? Are you guys active on LinkedIn or on social media? How do we know kind of what we are what Melissa is doing?
Melissa Zornitta 48:40
Well, I am on LinkedIn, Melissa Zornitta and but also the agency planhillsborough.org. We've got a lot of great things going on a lot of studies, updates to our plans, and all of our work is on our website or social media, which also follow the same PlanHillsborough
Nancy Surak 49:05
Awesome. Well, I want to thank you again for joining me telling me about your role and about planning for this great, huge community that we live in. And you know, I'm wishing you all the best on this new plan you
Melissa Zornitta 49:17
Thank you and I hope you'll give me that input. I was gonna say I hope, I hope you do follow up.
Nancy Surak 49:23
You will hear from me and I will do one better and offer to if ever I can be a resource for you. Land Advisors Organization, the company that I run here in Tampa, we're we're across the United States, we're in 30 locations. And we have 70 people like me across the US. And then another I don't know 50 or 60 support staff. We are huge and data analysis and how that translates into where demand will go for land and how to properly advise both sellers and buyers of a land asset. If there's anything you guys are looking for, from a hey, what's happening in there region like I'm constantly just digging into the data and studying things, which is very different and unique than most, quote unquote land brokers, right like I'm a land broker but I really truly am a land advisor like I can, yeah. tell folks like, Hey, here's what you should be paying attention to. So if I can ever be resource for you or anybody on your staff, please hit me up. I will for sure. Well, thanks again. We'll talk to you soon. All right, thanks. Bye. Thank you for joining me today on another episode of She's Wild the podcast for women in land and development. If you enjoyed today's episode, please go out and rate us right now so that other folks just like you can find us. And if you know a total Rockstar woman who's working in land and development or commercial real estate, who's either just getting started or is more seasoned, please tell her about the show. And finally, if you know someone who you think would make an excellent guest, I am always looking for inspiring women to interview and I would love your recommendations. please connect with me on any of my social media accounts by searching Nancy Surak