Today's guest is Chloe Firebaugh, the Senior Director of Land Acquisition for M/I Homes of Tampa, where she is responsible for managing the land acquisitions process for the division. She has more than 17 years of experience in the residential homebuilding industry, with knowledge in acquisitions, land planning, development, and community management.
In today’s episode of She’s Wild Podcast, I am eager to introduce you to our guest Chloe Firebaugh. Chloe is the Senior Director of Land Acquisition for M/I Homes of Tampa, where she is responsible for managing the land acquisitions process for the division. She has more than 17 years of experience in the residential homebuilding industry, with knowledge in acquisitions, land planning, development, and community management. Chloe has been an active member of ULI and currently serves on the board for the Tampa Bay ULI Council. Prior to beginning her career in homebuilding, she worked for several years in the financial brokerage industry.
Throughout the episode, Chloe and I discuss the different facets of the land industry and how her experience led to her becoming the Senior Director of Land Acquisition for M/I Homes of Tampa. Chloe dives deep into various deals she has been a part of throughout the years and the lessons she learned working through various challenges.
Memorable Moments:
3:11- I've kind of done a little of everything in the Land Department, and I really love the acquisition side. I love deals and running numbers and figuring out how to make everything work.
11:01- I've learned to be my own best advocate, and push forward, and that's how I've gotten to where I am and in the industry today.
23:57- Land is the most expensive I've seen in my career, but then on top of that homebuilding pricing, the cost to build a house, now has gone up 30-40% since January.
30:50- I would just say for anybody thinking about getting into our industry do it. It's a lot of fun, and there is something for everyone.
Connect with Nancy:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/nancysurak
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nancysurak/
Website: www.nancysurak.com
Connect with Chloe:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chloe-firebaugh-37ab2a6/
Instagram: @chloefirebaugh
Chloe’s Book Recommendation:
The Confidence Code via Amazon: https://amzn.to/3GXHOBp
She's WILD Sound Production by:
Luke Surak, Surak Productions: surakproductions@gmail.com
Nancy Surak 00:00
Welcome to She's Wild the podcast for women and land in development. I'm your host, Nancy Surak. I created this podcast as a way to collect conversations of women in the land and development industry. I've been a land broker on the west coast of Florida for nearly 20 years. And I love to empower other women and to tell them about this amazing industry. But I find often that there just aren't enough women being featured on big stages, whether that's at local conferences, or nationally. So I set out to find these women myself that are killing it in my business across North America that are changing the communities that they live in every single day, whether they're building condos, multifamily, single family, office, or industrial projects. I hope that you will find this space to be inspirational, motivating, and educational. From time to time, I will feature women who are not only in my business, but also career coaches, and motivational speakers. Hi, you're listening to She's Wild, the podcast all about women and land and development. Today's guest is along friend of mine, her name is Chloe fireball. She's going to jump right in and introduce herself. Chloe, why don't you tell us? Who are you? Where are you from? And what are you doing?
Chloe Firebaugh 01:25
Thanks, Nancy. I am the Senior Director of land acquisitions at MI home here in Tampa. We are a national homebuilding company, been with the company for 12 years now. been in the industry for more than 17. I actually started in mutual fund trading straight out of college. My degree is in finance and economics. I went to work for a trading company and what was it was okay, I didn't love it. I wasn't really having fun. And a girlfriend of mine, worked for a competitor of ours and said, you know, why don't you come learn about homebuilding. And about two months later, I was working in the development department of a another homebuilder and other national and stayed there at until really the market crash in a wait. learned all about land development or really learned the dirt side of the business. Homeowners associations permitting all the real fun, fun, sexy stuff. And then I was very lucky during the downturn that one of my vendors brought me on board and I actually did. I installed and did bids for trees and landscape and worked for 18 months in the landscape industry and learned a lot, learned how to install irrigation, never thought I'd be able to do that. But and then a boss that I'd had at my prior builder brought me on board and acquisitions. And I had never read a contract before I'd never done a pro forma. And I was very lucky to be hired in by really one of the best landac guys in the homebuilding industry. And he trained me for 12 years, he just retired and really grown from there. So that's how I got into homebuilding. I've kind of done a little of everything in the Land Department. And I really, I love the acquisition side. I love deals and running numbers and figuring out how to make everything work.
Nancy Surak 03:22
Thank you. So tell me, you said you really love the land side and the land acquisition? What part of the deal do you love the most?
Chloe Firebaugh 03:28
You know, I would say probably the pro forma, my, my background is finance and economics. So I really like running the numbers figuring out product and what can we do to make this not only a successful project for the company, but also a good product for our consumers? So yeah, I mean, I liked the contracts. I'm kind of a contract nerd. I like that. I like going out and meeting with people. But yeah, but running the really running the numbers and figuring out, you know, what do we have to do to make this deal work is, is my favorite part of them.
Nancy Surak 04:03
So talking about making deals work. I know you and I probably have some really crazy stories. I always have crazy stories at cocktail store cocktail events. Is there anything that's ever happened to you on a deal that you're like, Oh my God, I've never seen this before and how what is happening, like tell me something that may be crazy or different or wild that you've experienced. Um, you know,
Chloe Firebaugh 04:23
Most deals are pretty straight line with us. But I've had a couple that just kind of went off the rails at the last minute. It turned out that there was, you know, a homeowners association that had to approve everything that we weren't aware of. I've had issues where you know, we're getting ready to close and title defects come up at the last minute that you just got to figure it out. I have one right now that has oil rights going back almost 150 years that we're trying to trace all of the oil right so we can get them removed, which is not not a lot of fun. I had a project a couple years ago. in Pasco that it took us five years to remove all the oil rights. So it's it's a long process but it can be done it's just cost a lot of money and a lot of time.
Nancy Surak 05:10
My gosh, yeah. So for the benefit of our listeners, you know some folks might be in land or might be on the development side or repositioning assets in the state of Florida. Maybe you could explain this just just very briefly. Because I know this happens in Texas as well. When you buy a parcel of land, sometimes the the mineral rights run with the land and sometimes it's two separate parcels. And in Pasco it's, it's like two separate things, right. So sometimes you don't always you don't even know it, that it's under someone else's ownership. So so that that's amazing. Like that took you five years, like why didn't you guys just wave the red flag and or the white flag and be like, well, was marking up?
Chloe Firebaugh 05:51
Yeah, when it's a good project, it was a good piece of land, it was worth it to make it work. And we actually hired his title was land man, that was actually what it was on his business card out of Texas. In this particular case, it was in Pasco and it was one of those that there were two separate ownerships. So you had the land ownership, but then the mineral rights ownership. And in the state of Florida, sometimes they have been the right of entry has been removed, which means the person who owns the mineral rights has to get the approval the landowner to come do anything, in this particular case, it had not been removed. So that meant even if there was a homeowner with a house built, they could come in, and the mineral rights actually had a higher right to the property. And they could have come in and just started digging, or fracking, or whatever it was. So it took five years of tracing down all the different owners that you think generationally, as you know, someone had the rights, and then they, they had four kids, and then they had three kids. And so it was a lot of different people and pay offs to get rid of it. But it ended up being a very successful project with 300 Plus very happy homeowner, so it was worth the time and effort. But good,
Nancy Surak 07:03
So tell me, you know, that's that's a pretty interesting story. But tell me have you reached any projects where you've had like a massive obstacle overcome, or a major failure that you had to deal with, and, you know, share maybe one of those stories?
Chloe Firebaugh 07:19
Sure, we had one last year, excuse me, that, you know, we had great plans for the project, we spent a decent amount of money on zoning and engineering and legal to try and make the project work. And once our due diligence timeframe was finished, we just realized that it was a site that had a lot of hypocrisy on it. So a lot of hills. And you know, as much as sometimes you want something to work, and even when you spent six figures to try and get a project to work in this particular case, it would have been millions of dollars in either Stonewall or Phil. And then yards that homeowners really couldn't, you know, use, they would have had too much of a slope that we ended up having to walk away for the project. And it's disappointing. But, you know, sometimes you have to do that we don't get every single deal that that we end up going to contract on we'd like to, but it doesn't always happen that way.
Nancy Surak 08:14
Right? Yeah, no, I, I have lived it. And I try to tell a lot of my sellers, like, Hey, I try to pick the very best buyers, or help you pick the very best buyers, because usually I'm not the one making that final decision for them. They're always in control of that. But try to encourage them. Or suggest you know, one or two like, Hey, these are people that I know we're gonna do you right, and that they're gonna take it the project through the process and do everything that they need to do. So I appreciate you sharing that. But But do you consider that a failure or just an obstacle that you guys had to just kind of pick up your toys and go home.
Chloe Firebaugh 08:52
I mean, personally, I'm more considered as a failure, but the company doesn't, it's it is just an obstacle and you move on to the next project. But I and my boss, we have the same philosophy that we really don't like going to contract and wasting not only our time, but the sellers time, unless we think the deal is going to work, which is why we're a little slower than some of the others at going to contract. But sometimes things come up and you know, it's very rare that we cancel a deal, but it does happen and we try not to because it's disappointing to everybody all around. But you know, it's it's it's an obstacle and you move on and you find the next good deal.
Nancy Surak 09:28
Good. I'm glad you said that because it is part of the business, right? You learn like next time you encounter a project that has a lot of topography like this, that lesson is gonna stick with you, you will have learned how to navigate through a project. And you might next time you might say like, oh, been there, done that I'm not going to do that again, right? Or the ones that you win on that turn out to be amazing projects, even if they have obstacles along the way you can say oh, I've seen this before and I know how to get past this issue. Exactly. So you experienced it. So just taking it back as a step because you know, when I think about your early career when you were not necessarily in the homebuilding or in the land business of homebuilding industry, what is something that if you could go back and tell that younger, Chloe, about her future, or something that you've learned now, back that you didn't necessarily know, then like, what would be a story that you would want her to know?
Chloe Firebaugh 10:26
I would say, um, I let others how do I put this, I let others drive the trajectory of my career Early on, I didn't have the confidence to say, you know, I want that. And, and I want to do that I want to learn about that. It took me really until my late 20s, to really figure out what I liked doing and knowing that it's okay to ask, Hey, I really liked this, can I learn more about this. And so I wish early on in my career, I had a little bit more confidence. I will say it's still something I struggle with today. But I've also learned to be my own best advocate, and push forward. And that's that's how I've gotten to where I am and in the industry today.
Nancy Surak 11:08
And you're so fortunate, I mean, I know the team that you're associated with, and you have some great professionals that surround you that I know is part of why you've had 12 years where you're at right
Chloe Firebaugh 11:20
like 100%. And you were here I will,
Nancy Surak 11:24
yeah, you you just there's some of my most favorite people in the business, because they're just very ethical. Number one, they're just salt of the earth, individuals who they want those around them to succeed. And that says a lot about just attracting and keeping talent, especially in today's environment, where folks are sort of looking around and trying to figure out, is the grass greener somewhere else. So I applaud you and your role on the team, but also the people that are around you. You know, the only thing I would say is I wish you had some more females on your team. But I also recognize that that's part of why we're doing this podcast is to say, say to the young woman, or even somebody mid career, that's maybe and selling, you know, stocks or bonds or other investment instruments, that if they've you know, driven around their neighborhoods or their communities, and they see something and they're like, Oh, I wish I could build XYZ, you're just showing them an opportunity that, Hey, you came from that background. So
Chloe Firebaugh 12:19
well. And it's up to us that you know, have learned that and lived it and now are in positions of, of management to like you said to find those those younger women and pull them up with us and something I'm working on.
Nancy Surak 12:33
Me too. So tell me throughout your life, when you think about, you know, not only the people who were just bragging on that you work with today, or friends that you've had earlier in your career, but what are who've been some of the most influential people, and you can take it all the way back to your childhood, if you'd like. And why in your life, how you've chosen to you're live your life, and now you do a lot of volunteer work. And so if you want to talk about that as well, that would be that would be great.
Chloe Firebaugh 12:59
Sure. I would say I'm really going back to the beginning, my both my parents, but my father, especially, he was in management and also found time for charitable work. And so, and my mother always volunteered, and I grew up with the expectation that you give back, it didn't really matter what the the way that that happened. But that's really how I was how I was taught as a child. And I mean, even to this day, I still call my dad and he's been retired for many years now and just say, Hey, I've got this situation, you know, how would you have handled this back when you were in management, he was a division president for the natural gas industry for 30 years. And so he's managed teams, large and small. He's dealt with probably more life and death issues than we do in the homebuilding industry. So he's always been a really great mentor and role model for me. Some of the other people, I have a woman that I do a lot of charitable work with. She's about two decades older than me, and she really has been my mentor outside of the professional environment. She's a community ambassador or community volunteer, she's run nonprofits. She's a lawyer, she's also a mom raised raised two amazing children that now have their own families. And she has just been kind of that sounding board for me, both professionally and in the nonprofit world to you know, help me figure stuff out and how to be a better person, a better woman and a better leader.
Nancy Surak 14:31
That's great. Yeah. And parents have such an impact on the future of their children and how they live their life. So I'm glad that you brought up one of your parents and that you had such a strong role model. That's, that's really special. So taking it back to did you ever think you would be doing what you're doing now? Like as a young girl,
Chloe Firebaugh 14:52
um, a little bit I actually when I when I was in high school, I interned at an architectural firm And then I actually went to college, I went to the University of Florida originally as an architecture major. And I absolutely loved drawing and live design. Not very good at drawing before I built the buildings, which doesn't really work in the real world. And so I, that is one of my failures, I did flunk out of architecture school, and I ended up changing my major a couple of times, it was math, it was a couple of different things. I ended up graduating from the University of Florida with a degree in anthropology, which I absolutely love. I'm really great at jeopardy. But it doesn't really, it wasn't the career path that I wanted to do in the summer between my junior and senior year at Florida, I actually interned at nation's bank, and loved the math side of things so much, I actually minored in business my senior year, which was crazy, all my other friends were taking, you know, really easy classes, and I was taking macro and micro economics and, you know, principles of finance. So I came home, I started working at Raymond James, which is based in my hometown, and they paid for me to get a finance and economics degree. So, you know, I thought I that was the route I was going to do. I was going to be a research analyst. And it all kind of came back when someone in homebuilding who was a friend through my nonprofit work, you know, said, why don't you come talk to us about it. And it's been a great mix of really the architecture side of things, reading construction plans and engineering plans, and the math side of doing pro formas and analytics. So it really ended up being the best job that I didn't know existed when I was in high school. And I kind of wish I had done civil engineering or real estate when I was at Florida. But you know, when you're 18, it is what it is.
Nancy Surak 16:45
Yes, yeah, no, I didn't get into real estate brokerage saw my mid 30s. But I was doing sales for engineering companies before that, in my 20s. So it was around the business a lot, you know, and I was like, watching all these brokers who some I thought very highly of and others not so much, just killing it. And I was like, I think I can do that. You know, but then it really then it was a matter of like, well, what kind of brokerage? Yeah, and I was always like, super attractive. The front end of deals, always loved land always was like playing in the dirt. Always like walking on big tracks. And so I'm like, oh, that's you know, so it all makes sense for me from that perspective. But I didn't grow up in the industry, you know, so or even near it, or around it. So. So it's been an interesting journey for me. And I just love talking to women like you and just hearing kind of your your journey along the way. But getting back to some of the things that you do daily day in and day out, what are some of the skill sets that you think are most important that you utilize every day that if you were talking to another woman who is expressing like, Oh, I think I'm interested, what do you think they should be focusing on?
Chloe Firebaugh 17:57
I would say, for my job, some of the bigger skill sets that you need to have is really, you know, being able to look at the big picture. That's number one, the biggest thing, you need to be able to think about all aspects of a deal. How is this going to impact the company? How is it going to impact homeowners? A project manager really looks at the specifics and the smaller picture, but we need to look at the whole picture. Obviously, I mean, it sounds dumb, but like reading comprehension, you need to be able to read contracts. And you know, even when they're not full of legalese, they're still all those little words, the ands, and the does, and ORs are so yeah, shout versus may. But then, really the ability to so I am rather introverted. And one of the things that not that I struggle with, but that is a big part of my job that I am continually every day learning to do better is a big part of our job as networking is going out and meeting I mean, as you well know, meeting with homeowners meeting with land sellers and engineers and county officials and, and really getting out there. So number one, they know who you are, but also they know the product that you design and build and that you are someone that they want to do business with. So that's why I serve on you know, some of the industry boards and committees and whatnot. And I spend probably half my week in my car driving around talking to people. So for me, that's actually one of the more difficult parts of the job. I'd be happy you know, working in Excel and reading contracts all the time, but it is a part that is important. And it's something that a lot of people love to do. And I know you are fantastic at that part of the job.
Nancy Surak 19:41
Yeah, but you know what, I still have those hangups to where I have to think there's certain events that I have to like pump myself up in and I tell that to people, they're like, shocked. They literally say like, they look at me and they go what? And I go, Oh no, there's certain there's certain activities and I'm like, No, I don't want to be at this Getting our I can't or I'm so intimidated, you know and have to like kind of Rev myself up with a car and listen to certain songs and get like super excited but then once I'm there I can like turn it on.
Chloe Firebaugh 20:12
But I also feel it's a little harder for us to because how often are you the only female in the room all the time one of two. So it's you know, it's it's not as much of a good old boys club as it used to be but there's times you walk in and you know, you're the the only woman sitting at that table
Nancy Surak 20:28
and and I'm sure because we entered the business specifically I got until your brokerage 1718 years ago, so around the same time you got into the homebuilding industry. I wish I could say it's a lot different now. It's, it's better, way better getting there. But it's still like we have a long way to go. Yeah. But I get like super excited or pumped when I go young, like University of Florida, Florida State graduate Hall want to like me on LinkedIn, and it's a woman and I'm like, Yeah, I just I'm so excited in not because I want it all to be women. I just thought I want more of us because I think we have a different contribution to a project. And we look at things through a slightly different lens. And I'm sure your land team probably would say that about you as well. You just bring a breath of fresh air, I would imagine, in your analysis, how you're looking at it, what do you think about a community? I know we did a deal a few years ago, and I remember just talking about who we thought might be your ultimate homebuyer in that particular community and how exciting that was. Because for me, you know, I always think like long term like you said, big picture, like who is it? Who's the actual consumer here? And being able to say, Hey, I think this is sort of what this area is shaping up to be and, you know, what do you think in in getting your insight, which was a great fun project, I wish I had like 20,000 More of those tickets. So sellable today, but to kind of talk about, you know, here we are. In 2022. homebuilding is crazy. We have all these issues affecting us in our business, whether it's land or homebuilding. Can you talk about some of the bigger trends that you're seeing that you guys whether it's inland specifically, or in the homebuilding industry, as a whole that you're dealing with right now, one or two or three things that are occurring, that you're either paying particular attention to, or that you recognize is going to completely change how you guys do business?
Chloe Firebaugh 22:30
Yeah, so I mean, it Tampa Bay, while is not unique, I feel like this market is very different than a lot of the other markets nationally right now, in that we're not even just hot or so on fire, it's just a little crazy. Demand is, is just insane. And because of that, I mean, we've had to ration sales on our homebuilding side, because we physically can't build enough houses to keep up with the demand for all the home builders in the area. So that translates down to land that, you know, we're fighting and prices are being driven out because every national builder is looking at every piece and you know, it may be in a piece that was really a C or a D, two years ago that now it's it's red hot. The work from home trend is here to stay, whether we like it or not, it's it's going to keep going. So that means for us, we can go farther and farther out from the city. And so where I would have never in a million years thought we would be building large subdivisions. You know, we're entering into markets, we're entering into Hernando and more rural Polk County outside of Lakeland that really wouldn't have been feasible for someone having to commute to downtown Tampa every day. But now that people are going you know, maybe once a week, maybe it's once a month to work, having an hour hour and a half commute isn't a big deal. And now they they can drive to like qualify, which is huge because prices are skyrocketing. Land is the most expensive I've seen in my in my career. But then on top of that, you know, homebuilding pricing, the cost to build a house now has gone up 30 - 40% Since January, it's just insane this year, this year.
We have one particular house, we just updated the pricing last week, and it was a 25% increase since January 1, just in the lumber package, not including any of the other fees. And then on top of that, you've got a you know, it used to take six months to zone in six months to permit and then you could put a shovel on the ground and and now you know when I'm meeting with sellers I'm quoting, depending on the municipality between 12 and 24 months to go from, you know, raw dirt to me being able to put a shovel in the ground. So everything's more expensive, everything's taking longer but we also have a wider range of land that we're looking at as well. So it's it's an exciting time. It's just a little frustrating as well.
Nancy Surak 24:59
Yeah because then you have other external forces, right? So you've got, you guys have to deal with like interest rate issues, I guess to a degree, right? So then you're like, Okay, well, how many cash buyers are going to be out there? Are they going to be here forever? Should we be paying attention to what's happening in capital markets and interest rates? And how might that be playing into what can you perform in the land for because that's my business, right is telling landowners I'm like, Okay, this is like, I love this time of the market. But I also hate this time of the market. And people go, Why do you hate it? And I said, Well, two reasons. One, it's really hard to know what something is worth without just throwing it out there. And so you just everyone's sort of feeling around with not a lot of clarity. And to landowners can get really burned in this type of phase in the marketplace, because you've got so many people looking that there are groups and individuals and companies that will tell a landowner, whatever it is they think they need to hear in order to get into contract to figure things out. And I hate that because I know and I get enough calls from folks, whether I represent mean, try really hard when I represent them not to allow them to do those things. But I get enough calls from other groups, sometimes other buyers, sometimes sellers, relatives, sometimes sellers, attorneys, and they're like, Oh, my God, my client, or my friend, or my cousin is doing this, what do you think? And I'm like, well, who's who's the buyer? And they'll tell me, and I'm like, Ah, no, no, no, no, no, because it's just, you know, you just know from being in the business as long like, Who's Who's legitimate, who's not. But it seems like everybody is land buyer right now, land speculator and state of Florida, even with his expensive as we're seeing, it's crazy. But you know, that just makes relationships even that more important, right, like conducting yourself professionally, which you've always done a great job of, thank you. So even though you might be intimidated by going out to those meetings, people see that you're genuine and hardworking and smart, and it makes a difference. So I love to put you in front of my planners, because I know you're not gonna you're not gonna, you're not gonna lie to them at all. Yeah, you know, if the deal works, it's great. If it doesn't, then it doesn't. Yeah. So I guess one more question, or maybe a couple will throw in here. Because I have a few of these. What's been since you've been, say, like at MI for last 12 years, what's been your favorite deal that you've ever put together?
Chloe Firebaugh 27:30
Favorite deal. Say, I'm working on one right now, actually, that it's it's very difficult. And it's frustrating me beyond belief. But it's a really unique deal that it's, it's requiring a lot of people to work together. Excuse me, it has trips, it has extra fees at the end, it has permanent challenges. But I know that it is going to be a fantastic community once it comes on the ground in a couple of years. So as much as the frustrating deals are annoying, they're also the most fun. So I would say this one is probably my favorite in the last five or six years. Early on in my career, I had some that, you know, were ended up being great projects, but they they were pretty standard. And so, you know, the more difficult ones do stand out and and it makes our job fun. Yeah,
Nancy Surak 28:35
I would agree with that. The ones that you know, you've woken up in the middle of the night, and you're like, I have to find a solution. Right? Yeah, exactly. It's just the they're like children you like raise them or like sometimes people would say it's like baking a pie, right? It's like, there's so much effort and love that goes into the process that when it comes out like it could really not taste great, but you're like, I made that. Thanks so much pride of ownership, but you're like I I lost sleep over that. And so yeah, I have a few of those as well. So to wrap up today, I first of all, I want to really thank you for coming on and to share your story. Like it's really important that for me that we're collecting these stories and putting them out there for the world to consume. But I always like to ask at the end, if there is a book or a podcast that you that you've read or listened to recently that you have found particularly impactful in your personal or professional life, if you could just share with that would be you know the name of the title and maybe the author so that folks that are listening if they're avid readers, and maybe they can pick up a copy or download a an audio book of a version.
Chloe Firebaugh 29:40
Yeah, um, I don't know the author off the top of my head, but I actually finished right before the holidays, the Confidence Code. So I talked a little bit about, you know, wanting to really work on my confidence even now in my 40s. But it's it's a great book because it kind of works off of the lean in movement. but it really is something that it's for any stage of your career. It's really not aimed at, you know, starting off at the the lower tiers of your career. It's, it's for pretty much anyone and it's written by two women. So it's it was a very impactful book for me.
Nancy Surak 30:15
Good. Now, where can if folks want to follow you or keep up with your career and deals that you're doing? Where would you recommend they follow you on social media or elsewhere?
Chloe Firebaugh 30:25
I would say LinkedIn qualifier was what I'm under on LinkedIn, and I'm getting more and more active on it. I have kind of haven't focused on it. But that's one of my goals for this year.
Nancy Surak 30:36
Awesome. Good. Well, thank you again, Chloe, for joining me today and for joining our listeners and giving your insight if there's anything else you'd like to share. Now, it'd be a great time to say, hey, here's one more thing I forgot to say earlier.
Chloe Firebaugh 30:50
I would just say for anybody thinking about getting into our industry do it. It's it's a lot of fun. And there is something for everyone. You know, I'm on the residential side, you're on the land brokerage side, there's engineering, there's government, there's just so many different facets of what we do that anybody can come make land work, and it's fun ride.
Nancy Surak 31:11
I 100%. Agree. Thank you again. Thank you for we'll see you probably in a couple days or so. Yep. Thanks. Sorry. Take it thanks. Thank you for joining us for another episode of she's wild the podcast for women and land and development. If you enjoyed today's show, please go out and rate us so that we can be found by other women in our industry. And if you know women who are working in land and development, please share this podcast with them. And if you know a total rock star woman, badass chick who is killing it in land and development anywhere in North America. I want to know who she is. Please reach out to me so that I can feature her on an upcoming episode