In today's episode Brooke and I talk about her extensive career experience. She’s open, honest, and provides excellent insight into her life as a woman in construction and she shares tips on what she's learned about it takes to be successful as a woman in the construction industry. We also discuss challenges she faces on projects and how she overcomes them.
Welcome back to the She’s Wild Podcast! I’m so excited to have Brooke May, Vice President of Construction of Belpointe as our guest for today’s episode. Prior to her current position, Brooke served as Vice President of Residential Construction at Strategic Property Partners working solely at Water Street Tampa. She has over 19 years of experience in the construction industry working in multiple roles including as a subcontractor, general contractor, and developer. Prior to SPP, Brooke worked as a Sr. Project Manager with Moss and Associates overseeing multifamily and hotel projects. She also worked with Reinforced Structures, Inc. and helped build iconic projects such as The Perez Art Museum in Miami, FL and The Salvadore Dali museum in St. Petersburg, FL.
In today's episode Brooke and I talk about her extensive career experience. She’s open, honest, and provides excellent insight into her career and she shares tips on what she's learned about what it takes to be successful as a woman in the construction & development industries. We also discuss challenges she faces on projects, such as supply chain issues, and what she does to overcome them.
Memorable Moments:
7:03 - It's very cool to have a tangible product at the end of what you do. I mean, even with the development side, you might think you're just turning and burning dirt. But when it's all said and done, you took that dirt, and you helped develop the building, even if you weren't a part of the construction. For me, the tangibility has always been fantastic.
16:46- I've never had the fear of No. No is not a punishment, no is just no.
17:32- If you're not happy where you are, you're not getting the satisfaction from where you are, the only thing you can do is change. You can't expect everybody else to change for you.
42:01 Learn your stuff and know your stuff. Because if you don’t, they will walk all over you.
42:16 Take the job, do the work. Construction as a whole; you got to have five solid years underneath you doing the grunt work just to even understand how multiple buildings go together, not just one. You can't just be on one project and think you know, it all.
42:54- There's a lot of men who are opening up to it when realizing how thorough and detailed women are, and needing that on their team. Women are being sought after for the positions in construction.
Connect with Nancy:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/nancysurak
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nancysurak/
Website: www.nancysurak.com
Connect with Brooke
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brooke-may-70161143/
Brooke’s Book Recommendations:
She's WILD Sound Production by:
Luke Surak, Surak Productions: surakproductions@gmail.com
Nancy Surak 00:00
Welcome to She's Wild the podcast for women and land in development. I'm your host, Nancy Surak. I created this podcast as a way to collect conversations of women in the land and development industry. I've been a land broker on the west coast of Florida for nearly 20 years. And I love to empower other women and to tell them about this amazing industry. But I find often that there just aren't enough women being featured on big stages, whether that's at local conferences, or nationally. So I set out to find these women myself, that are killing it in my business across North America that are changing the communities that they live in every single day, whether they're building condos, multifamily, single family, office, or industrial projects, I hope that you will find this space to be inspirational, motivating, and educational. From time to time, I will feature women who are not only in my business, but also career coaches, and motivational speakers. Welcome to shoes while the podcast for women and land and development. Today's guest is Brooke May the VP of construction for Belle point. Brooke, welcome to the show. We've been longtime friends, I'm so excited that you agreed to allow me to introduce you and to interview you. I'm looking forward to learning more about your background and sharing your story with my audience. Brooke, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself more formally. Tell us a little bit more about yourself and what you're doing at Bell point. Sure. Well, thank you, Nancy. Yes, we have known each other longer than I will admit on this podcast.
Brooke May 01:41
So happy that you reached out and happy to speak on these topics. It's super important that we talk about, you know, women in these very fun roles and dominating a male run industry. So I have been in construction now 19 years, graduated from the University of Tampa, with a degree in International Business and had no idea what I was going to be doing. And just went to the Career Center and happened across a job at a painting subcontractor. And didn't even know what that meant. I just knew that I had painted houses before and thought this can't be too hard. But really had no idea that it was commercial construction, what the industry really is, how far reaching it goes, how this industry impacts every aspect of our economy, and getting to be a part of it really from all different aspects. So kind of keeping it brief, have been on a subcontractor side twice in my career, been on a general contractor side twice in my career, and have now been on the development side for the last five years of my career with two different developers. Awesome. So when you were back in college, you said you didn't really know anything about other than painting house. Do you recall having any memories of being attracted to the construction industry, as a child or even as a young person? Not in the slightest. I have always worked in fields that had more men than women. When I was in high school, you know, my big job was that I was a summer beach lifeguard. And I think on the entire squad of 50 of us, there were three women. So it was you know, I just kind of knew I could hold my own. And, you know, you're not always the strongest, you're not always the fastest, but goodness gracious, I was going to be the smartest. So that helped. But um, no, actually, when I shared with my dad that I had gotten a job, and I was out of college, and I didn't have to move back home and told him I was going to be in construction. He said no, he said, That's just that's not going to happen. You have a college degree, you're not going to be swinging a hammer. And I had to explain to him that it was a whole, you know, real industry. And there's a management side to it, as well as the labor side to it. And over the course of my career, he became way more eased up on my career choice.
Nancy Surak 04:04
No, no doubt. I mean, I'm sure he's really proud of you. So take me through, how did you go from working for a paint subcontractor to getting into the next step, like becoming on the on the GC side? Tell me about that transition.
Brooke May 04:22
So I literally just showed up my first day. And as some of you may know, what even if you have a college degree in the field that you think you're going into you show up your first day, and you really know nothing. So I had double nothing, which you know, two negatives equal positive, I guess, showing up for my first day. And they just kind of immerse me and they took me and showed me a set of blueprints, and then they showed me how to manage schedules, and they showed me how to load manpower and they showed me how to do my own estimates. And from there, I had multiple contractors who were my clients, they were, you know, under my guys and who I was chasing after that. And one of them just happened to be Skanska. And again, just wanting to be the best and get the jobs. I was overly tenacious. And in their office every week meeting the guys talking to the people asking what they had next to bid. And I guess I made enough noise that somebody stopped me one day in the elevator and goes, Hey, are you that girl that works for merit coatings? And I said I am. And they said, Do you want to come work in construction? And I immediately said, you know, like, oh, I don't have a construction degree. You know, I can't do this. And it was the first time I had, you know, a male supporter that basically said, What's your degree? And I said, business, he goes, that's all we do is business. He goes, you can read the blueprints, and you can figure out the stuff in the field. Everybody does. He goes, but we need people with business sense, common sense, the ability to figure this out on charts and dance and memos and accounting and the whole prospect that's behind it. And he said, Do you want to do it. And that was the first time in my career when I took the jump. And it was scary. And I didn't know what I was getting into. I mean, it could have failed miserably. But I did it. And it led to the next, you know, four year path of my career, which was pretty successful. I went from being an assistant project engineer, they wouldn't even hire me as a project engineer, which is your standard out of college. Set, you know, place. So I had to take this as a position but worked my way through and by the time I left, I was in a project management position.
Nancy Surak 06:29
That's awesome. So I think you worked on a pretty, pretty well known project when you were at Skanska. Right. Did you work on the Dali?
Brooke May 06:38
That was when I was with the concrete subcontractor though.
Nancy Surak 6:41
Okay, so that was before Skanska?
Brooke May 6:42
It was after Skanska after.
Nancy Surak 6:43
Okay
Brooke May 6:44
So we want to do a whole timeline?
Nancy Surak 6:46
I do i do I'm like I'm, I mean, I've known you forever. But I your career has been pretty remarkable just to watch the things that you've worked on, on the west coast of Florida and the impact you've made in our local construction community. I mean, it's, it's pretty cool to like, just pause and go. She built that.
Brooke May 7:03
It's very cool to have a tangible product at the end of what you do. I mean, even with the development side, you might think you're just turning and burn and dirt. But when it's all said and done, you took that dirt, and you helped develop the building, even if you weren't a part of the construction. For me, the tangibility has always been fantastic. Like I get to literally show my steps son, hey, that was me. We go to the Dali Museum, hey, I remember having to coordinate the connection of these walls. And he doesn't get it yet.
Nancy Surak 7:34
But he will be very impressed. At some point in his near future. He'll say he'll be telling other people, my stepmom built that. Because even though I don't do construction, I always take credit for you guys. For any project that I've sold the land. How am I built that even though we can't do anything without the land? The greatest part of that is that my kids when they were growing up would say my mom built that No, I didn't build anything. I just sold the property where it got built. Do tell me Okay, so you went to Skanska you work there tell me about like a big project that you know might have some meaning or what exactly did you focus on there? Because I don't think I know that part of your story.
Brooke May 08:16
So Skanska was the ground building, right? That's where I was building my foundation. That's where I did all the grunt work, and learn the ins and outs of submittals and shop drawings and RFIs and drawing coordination and subcontracts and the whole gamut there. So while I was at Skanska, I worked on an elementary school, rebuild and refurbishment that was pretty fun. I worked out in Lakeland building, the lakeside Lifestyle Center. I don't even know what it's called anymore. But it was like the first outdoor mall in Lakeland that everybody was thrilled with. We literally brought a Mimi's cafe and a Victoria's Secret to like linen. Everybody was thrilled. And then went to work at Tampa General Hospital building, the USF Health South building, and then on to Matt West office building one. So that's what I worked on at Skanska. And then while I was on the USF project, and the Midwest project, one of my subcontractors was reinforced structures. And they weren't awesome at the time, they were doing a really good job, but they needed some help. Like they were a company that could be great. And I remember just getting on them all the time about bad submittals and bad pay apps. And you got to get this done right. And let me help you get this figured out. And one day, they just stopped me and said, Do you want to come work for us? And I was like, oh God now you know, who wants to go back to a subcontractor when you've been with a general contractor. But again, that was the second time in my career, that an opportunity came that I wasn't anticipating and just took the leap and dove into everything that was cast in place concrete, which is a very cool part of everyday commercial building. And that did lead to The Dali museum. And that was one of the first projects in the country where we used self consolidating architectural, concrete. And funny enough, I'll send you a picture. Me and my teammates ended up on the cover of concrete contractor magazine, that's a thing. Talking about, you know how we did that building, how we constructed it the ins and outs of teaming the structure with the architectural component. And that led to being invited to work on the Miami Art Museum with RSI, which was another structural, concrete, architectural, concrete building. And I spent a year down in Miami working with John Moriarty on that project. So then from there, how did you end up at the big project in Tampa? So while I was down there, I met moss and Associates. And they said, Hey, we're going to be starting a project in Tampa, I think you'd live up there, would you be interested in you know, coming back to the general contractor side. And at that point, I was ready. Concrete was awesome. And I really enjoyed it. But it was just one piece of a whole building. And I missed putting together that whole big picture and the whole big puzzle and working, you know, soup to nuts start to finish on a project. So the timing was good for me. And they were just opening their Tampa office. And that was the two Bay Shore project. First Project Moss did in Tampa, and then we ended up acquiring another company and they becoming a whole lot bigger. Moss is much bigger now than when I first started. They're here in the Tampa market. And I worked with moss for five years. And again, head down project manager, Senior Project Manager just doing the work learning and absorbing as much as I could. And I was ready for change. And I didn't know what the change was. I didn't know if it was a whole career change. I didn't know if it was do I have a baby and stay at home? Mom, I'm just kidding. That wasn't me ever. For those who might be thinking it. It could be you. It wasn't me. And took a leap of faith and there was water St. Tampa. And we have a mutual friend and Denise Young, who said oh my god, I know all those guys were working really hard on getting a project they need some construction people would you be willing to interview and it was a really big challenge because it was a pay cut. It was a kind of a job demotion, if you will, because I was a senior pm at Moss, and they wanted me to be a project manager at Water Street. But I kind of went through the finances. And it was just kind of me at the time trying to figure out my life. And I said, Okay, I can do this, I can take the leap of faith. I know I have to start from the bottom again, because I'm going to a developer side, which I've only worked with developers, you know, I knew how to make them happy from a construction side, but I've never known how to drop the hammer as a developer on the contractors. And within I think I started there in May of 2017. And by the end of that year, had been promoted to vice president construction with that group. And, you know, took away all the other, you know, challenges that I had with finances and having you know, was I wasn't the right fit, did I do what I was supposed to do, and stayed there for four years during the entire construction of phase one. And not only did I get to oversee all the residential construction at Water Street, but I was a part of the off site infrastructure, the public realm, Sparkman Wharf, you know, just getting to touch all aspects of how that project came together. Yeah, so So what do you you're doing? What are you doing now at Bell point. So at Bell point, I am again, we focus solely on residential, I worked for the prep, which is our publicly traded portion of our REIT. And I'll never get it right because I'm not a finance person. I just know that BellPoint is traded on the New York Stock Exchange, we have proprietary shares, and we're selling shares to gain cap or raise our capital for our projects. But I'm overseeing their large residential construction. So we have a project in Sarasota, a project in St. Pete a project in Nashville, we're acquiring more land all over the country, we build strictly in opportunity zones and have a 10 year hold. So not only are we building to make it cool, and people want to live there, but also building for longevity and functionality, keeping all of our optics down and, you know, keeping construction looking good.
Nancy Surak 14:34
Thank you for for taking me all the way through your construction story. I think it's important for my listeners to hear things like I didn't know where I was going next, or, Hey, I took this huge leap. So I want to talk a little bit about taking a huge leap and the risk, right? Like how do you because I'm a broker. You've known me for a long time, but I don't think you knew me before I was a broker. And that was a huge risk for me and a huge leap to say like, I'm gonna do this. And I don't know if I'm gonna make any money. So I just want to talk about, like, what made you think I'm going to do this? And I'll either die trying or I'm going to be successful. Like, what is it in Brooke, that made you believe in yourself?
Brooke May 15:19
Well, I'm kind of my biggest fan, which I think you have to be when. I tell myself, I'm awesome. Everyday, literally, like in the morning, I get up and go, Alright, you're good, you can do this. And I have friends all the time that I say I checked my crazy on, you know, just in my room, tell me crazy, tell me what's going on. But, you know, I was really good at my job. And I knew I was good at my job. And people knew I was good at my job. And there were projects where people would say, alright, I'll get the job if Brooke’s going to be the project manager. And so I knew that that had merit, I didn't know how and I, you know, wasn't just going to sit back and self aggrandizing on it, I was either going to keep going up, because I wanted to go up until I got up to where I wanted to be. or I was going to take the jungle gym approach, and I was going to go around and then up or underneath and then up, or you know, that's it's not a ladder, it's, there's 1000 ways to get to the top. And sometimes it's just by connecting the right people to the right places. So that, you know, in a year from now, once that connection is made, then you can capitalize on that connection and figure it out. It's all a big web. But I've never had the fear of No. And I do not know where that came from. I think it's just you've just got to push yourself every single day. And no is not a punishment, no is just no. And then you'll find a way to ask for it again, in the way you want to. And you try again and again and again, until you get the you know, the full and final block. And the risk. You know, there's always that financial risks, especially when you're single. I mean, at the time, when I jumped to the developer, I just been divorced, I was on my own trying to figure out my life, which I thought was in shambles. You know, when your personal life's in shambles work gets a whole lot harder to figure out. And it just felt good. And I kept a magnet on my refrigerator that I saw every day when I would drive in that said, you know, leap and the net will appear. And nothing is more true. And sometimes the net isn't what you think then that will be. But if you're not happy where you are, you're not getting the satisfaction from where you are, the only thing you can do is change. You can't expect everybody else to change for you. And I think that's where that no fear comes from if you're not getting what you're wanting where you're at. Go somewhere else.
Nancy Surak 17:49
Yeah. And I think that's something that you and I have talked about offline, like over the years, many times, you know, because I've always been that person too. And I joke around, you know, with my family, and I'm like, I was always willing to jump from one tree to the next, you know, and I would always say like, I'm aiming for the top of the tree. Because chances are, I'm going to either make it to the top or close enough, like, I'm not going to fall all the way down to the ground and break all my bones like I might, it's part of my risk, but it's worth the risk. You know, I was like, I'm gonna make it, I might get kind of beat up, I might fall a few branches down, but I'm ultimately going to be better for it. I'll be stronger. Because I took the leap. So I love that about you.
Brooke May 18:35
Exactly. Well, and women are notoriously harder on themselves. You know? Well, I've got a family that needs me, well, I've got to you know, I can't make the change because I can't make my childcare worker. Oh, you know, so filtering the excuses and realizing what's an excuse, and what's a real challenge is something too. And I share that with a lot of people because an excuse is not a challenge. Now the challenge is, hey, they want me to do it for free like an intern. Right? But I'm taking a big, you know, instead of taking a deducted pay, but again, that's you decide if you go in and you do an unpaid internship we've heard before those pay off in spades, or if you're willing to squeeze the pennies for a couple months and see how it all works out and just finding somebody to talk to about it. I think that helps too. Because you'll find even if it's somebody who might not be your biggest supporter, they often will support people making a change because it's so scary for them. They want to see somebody else do it as well.
Nancy Surak 19:33
Yeah, yeah, totally. So let's take a step back when you when you I mean, you went through your whole career, you rattled off a bunch of projects that are truly like amazing throughout the state of Florida. When you look back, what is your absolute most favorite project that you worked on?
Brooke May 19:49
Oh, it's my favorite because it was my worst.
Nancy Surak 19:54
Well, good, dude. You're killing two stories with one question. Tell me more about it.
Brooke May 20:00
It was the project that absolutely broke me. It was a hotel over in Clearwater. And it was a project that was already under some challenges. And we'll get to that again, because that has a whole nother story behind it. But they said, Can you come out and work on this project, and it was getting out there figuring out where things had gone, right, figuring out how things have gone wrong, figuring out how to take something that was broken, and try to put it back together and Sundays, it was held together with superglue. And some days, it was hanging on by a thread on the side of the building. And the owner and I did not get along very well, which was a weird point in my career, because owners and I almost always got along. My boss and I didn't get along. At the time, I did not enjoy the person who I was directly reporting to and didn't feel that they were supportive of the challenges that were going on on the site. But every day, I put on my big girl panties, and I drive out to the beach at six o'clock in the morning. And I had what I call the Berkey is a badass mix back when CDs existed. For those of you who don't know what tapes and CDs are. I actually was on my iPod. But I would just play those songs that inspired me over and over again. And I also would listen to Tina Fey's Bossy Pants, over and over again on the way to work and just hear things that were resonating with me. And we'd get to work. And the best part about that job was the project management team. We were dynamic, we all enjoyed each other, we were all in the fight together. We were all stressed out to the max and working more than we should. And, you know, fighting things along the way. But that was a team like we that part of the team really felt like a team. So you know, with the good and the bad. And then it opened up and you know, open to beautiful fanfare and acclaim, which was awesome. So I love that the project turned out well, and I love that everybody you know, enjoys going there and seeing the hotel. I just will never forget the lessons and the memories that came from it. And getting past it every single day. Yeah, so tell me what was your favorite song on that playlist? Allanis Morsett's Hey there little man, you mispronounced my name? You didn't wait for all the information before you turn me away? You know that one? I don't get to be downloaded get to you. Jagged Little Pill best women's album of all time? I just have to say it. Why was that your favorite? I mean, I'm listening to the title. And I'm guessing I can probably guess, right? That's not the title. I can't remember the title off off the top of my head. That's like the first. But it talks about how, you know, hey, you mispronounce my name. You didn't wait for me to tell you everything before you turn me away. And then it was, well, now I'm getting to where I need to be. I don't like who you are. I don't care if you like me or not. And then it's, Hey, I turn around. And now I'm the boss. And now you're begging me for work. That's the song. So you've got to listen to it just it just affirmed. Women have been feeling this way for quite some time. And when you don't get the support you need if you're not where you need to be you suck it up, and you just do better. You better
Nancy Surak 23:24
Absolutely. And you work hard, right. And like you said earlier, you if you can't get up the ladder straight, there's always some other way to reach your goal. And it might not be the goal you have in mind. But there's a way either under and around, or through the back door or however, you know, there's always some other way. And I know I tell my kids, when they were I would tell my kids when they were growing up the obstacle that you see that's preventing you from the goal that you have. It's just It doesn't mean that it's absolutely no, it just means that not right now. And there's something else that you're supposed to experience and go with that and be happy with that. So I love that. I love that you share that story. So tell me what is the absolute strangest thing that you've ever encountered on one of your projects?
Brooke May 24:13
Oh, okay, so this is editable, right? Because you'll have to decide if this is good enough for the podcast. I literally had a grown man hit me during the meeting. During a meeting saying during meeting, interestingly enough, so we'll, we'll protect the project. But tell me more about that experience. Sure. So it was a project that was not going well. I was on the developer side like this was 2019. So this wasn't like it was 2003 where things were coming out of, you know, women in construction. This was we were there and I was a VP. You were pretty far. I mean, your your career experience was pretty well established at that point. Yeah, I mean, this this was one One of four projects that I was overseeing and things just weren't going well. You know, every day, I felt like I was just browbeating this particular contractor and couldn't get responses, couldn't get schedules couldn't get things we needed. And it was just a weird time. And you know, you'd walk into a meeting and everybody get that feeling in their stomach, like, Oh, God, I don't want to be at this meeting. It's just one more meeting that's going to end with nothing, you know, we're just going to be in the exact same place. And I was sitting in a group, probably 12 people in a conference room, I was the only woman. So there were 11 other men, two of which were on my team. The rest of we're with the contractor. And unfortunately, this guy had just gotten it handed to him, like he wasn't doing his job, he wasn't giving us feedback, we weren't getting deliverables. And as we moved on to other parts of the meeting, he got up this room is a big rectangle. And on one side is a door and on the other side is a door. Well, he got up and went out the door that I could see, and came back in the back door where my back was face to it. And I'm sitting there talking, and all of a sudden, I'm just sitting here and you know, talking just like you and I went and I melt and my guy went in their eyes just got huge. My guy sitting next to me texted me, he goes, That will never happen again. I said, what happened? I said to him, he goes, Yeah, don't worry, we're gonna, you know, go to our boss afterwards. And I had to take a breath, stand up, walk out of the room and compose myself, because I was so flippin angry, like his tears start to swell up, you know, we wouldn't be just so mad. You can't. And it's not crying because I'm sad. It's crying because I'm angry because I don't know why you did it. I came back into the meeting and finished the meeting and not one of the 11 men in that room, said anything. And because I didn't see what happened, the guy who was on my team sitting across from me said he basically just came up behind you and while you were talking just bopped you on the head with his fist and walked past and I went, so the man physically put, like, put his hand even when I did it to myself, it hurt. Hurt it had to go back to my boss and tell him what happened. And the funny thing is, you know, now there's four men and me in the room, and I'm the one who got physically touched. And they're like, Well, what was it like? Was it like a punch? Was it like a thought and boy, was it like a, and one of the guys said, it was like, You were his daughter on a call on a basketball team. And he's mad at everybody, but he can't, you know, punch all the other kids on the team. So because you're his own kid, he just came up and he's like bopped you on the head like, I go. But again, that's just this, it's not appropriate to put your hands on anybody. So Oh, my one. My one boss goes, well, what would I have done? If he did it to me? And the guy said, Oh, he would have turned around and sucked him right in the face.
Nancy Surak 28:08
He probably would not have.
Brooke May 28:12
Oh, yeah, no, that's exactly right. Like he didn't put his hands on any of the other men in the office. Like, I don't know if he was beating up as guys, you know, had the backstage but he apparently was a man, different generation who felt it was appropriate felt, felt that it was okay, let's not even say that it was appropriate. Something in him said, I can walk by this woman and just bop around the head because you know, I can. That was a weird thing. I would say that is pretty strange. And And honestly, one of the first stories I've had like that.
Nancy Surak 28:53
I'm really proud of you that you remain in the construction industry. Even after that, I think, you know, when you have to defend yourself physically, it's, it can really knock you for a loop. And I was in it was a rough couple of days after that. I'll be honest with you, just figuring out my emotions, having to talk to our legal team having getting asked are you going to sue us?
Brooke May 29:16
Right? No, I'm not going to sue my own company. You guys weren't responsible for it, you know, like, are you going to sue the other company? No, you know, he got fired immediately, which was the appropriate thing to do. And I also remember, somebody told me this a long time ago when construction was a lot harder. If you quit, they win. And so quitting was never an option for me, but moving to something bigger and better, was a better win for me.
Nancy Surak 29:47
Absolutely. Well, I'm glad that Justice got served right for him. Sure. Hopefully it was a lesson for the gentleman in the room because I would hope that they had to process everything as well. Oh, I think it was shot. cuz wasn't 20 years ago? Not that that would have been okay even then. But I think for me, I'm like, okay, that's just a handful of years ago, it would have thrown me for a loop. You know, I, and I tell people all the time, I'm like, Look, you know, I'm pretty tough. And I think you're pretty tough Brooke. I mean, I've served on boards with you. And we have like this mutual, unspoken respect, like, I know that people aren't going to roll you over like a bulldozer, just like I know, they're not going to roll me. And I also know that you're going to treat everyone with respect and dignity, no matter what their role in their responsibility, like, I know that from working with you. So it's shocking to me that you had to experience that. But I'm glad that you were able to say, You know what, he was punished. I'm gonna move on in my career. I'm gonna put down this lesson. I'm wondering, do you ever sit in front of a doorway? Now in any meetings? I think I would probably not do that.
Brooke May 30:53
Did you know it's really funny as I don't even remember his name. That's how I've been able to just forget it, you know, because if I hold on to it, and stayed angry about it, what does that do for anything, it really just hurts me. And so I compartmentalized it. I felt it. I put it in my emotion box for a couple days. And then I let it go. And moved on, just like you said. Right. Right.
Nancy Surak 31:22
Okay, so we'll, we'll switch a little bit from the strangest thing that ended up in, you know, physical attack to, which is it's just shocking to me to something that you alluded to earlier is having challenging days and having a playlist. And knowing that, you know, sometimes it's just part of the deal, right? It's part of the project that you're on is that you're going to, especially in the construction side, because I happen to know that not all plans are perfect, and that you guys discover things in the field that you have to address that sometimes you're discovering them at a point of like an emergency, right? Like you're like, Oh, crap, we got to find a solution. I want you to tell us, what have you done in your career, when you've really faced like big, big challenges where you're like, Okay, this is a massive issue we have to fix, like, how do you keep yourself motivated and pumped up and just energized to make sure that you have the proper energy?
Brooke May 32:17
So your timing on that question is impeccable, because I'm going through it right now.We literally cannot get ready mixed concrete. For a project that we started last month. Actually, we started at the end of March. And we've been moving forward with all the work we've been putting together contracts, we've been moving forward. And all of a sudden, the concrete subcontractor who issued purchase orders in January, came back and said, hey, the concrete subs and the rebar subs, or the vendors have all pulled their POS and said they're not guaranteeing pricing, they're not guaranteeing supply. They can't get raw materials, there aren't enough drivers. And they have so much work already in their coffers, they're not committing to giving us any concrete for the project. So every day for the last six weeks, I have been calling every person I know in the concrete industry. Every vendor, I know every supplier, I know. Multiple calls, coordination calls a week with the subcontractor, exhausting every avenue putting together schedules where we have gaps in the design, putting together schedules where we redesigned to try to offset you know, some of the concrete on the job. Figuring out what a cost it would be if we stopped work. All of these things just culminating and trying to be able to put all the nitty gritty, day to day things that are making this challenge, completely unfixable into a four page memo to submit to My senior leadership team to tell them why we think we should move forward with option one, two, or three, when every one of those options is awful. And I have to stop and look back at myself and realize, Brooke, you didn't create this problem. You've moved forward and procured and met every scheduled deadline and goal and date that you have set, your team is moving forward with everything. And now you have to look at the opportunities and the risks and figure out what outweighs what. And present that accordingly. How can we keep moving forward with things that are not on critical paths? How can we try to work with ready to mix contractors to see if we can negotiate our way into a slot? You know, do we do a redesign and what does that do to the project and I have no answers. As of today. We're still figuring through the process. But I have to tell myself, you didn't cause this. And this is something that's hitting the industry this is a force majeure because you've checked every single concrete subcontractor in the market, you've checked every single vendor in the market, everyone is telling you the same thing. This is not a build point project issue, this is across the board. And it means every single developer is going to be trying to fix this problem as well. And the solution to the problem might be that we just have to sit and wait until concrete comes back into supply. That might be the solution. It's not what you can do. But it's the only option, right? But at least you've exhausted everything you could and wake up every morning making every phone call you can, and looking your boss in the eye and saying every call was made, every box was checked, everything was looked at. And if you guys can help, please do. You know, cuz I've got a team up in Connecticut that's not facing the same issues. This is strictly, really a Tampa Bay, Florida problem. And it's not touching them. So they're wondering what's going on down here and why we're having such concerns and such issues. So maybe they can trick you some raw materials. I tried that, Nancy, trust me.
Nancy Surak 36:07
It's really scary to hear that. You know, I'm married to a civil engineer, and he will tell me from time to time, what he's hearing from construction folks. And I'll say, You know what, there's this shortage of of x, y, or z. And he gets really concerned, because he knows like, ah, if this, Hey, and he'll say to me, you know, on the land side, he's like, this is going to impact you like it's coming. And I'm like, Y'all, we'll find a solution before it impacts me. But
Brooke May 36:35
it's interesting to see all these different supply chain issues and something as simple as ready mix concrete, you know, because has been in ready supply since the Roman times.
Nancy Surak 36:46
Yeah. And I mean, because I'm thinking in my head, oh, well, I know where that concrete plant is, I know where they're all around our region. And I'm like, Well, why aren't?
Brooke May 36:56
Why are they making more? You know, but it's supply chain and capacity and demand, drivers believable at driving as simple as somebody who's going to drive the concrete truck. Yep. And then you don't even think about it. But the rebar thing, you know, we can get rebar. But nobody's committing to a locked in price like they did for the last 20 years. Because there's a war in Ukraine. And you wouldn't think that that was impacting construction in Florida. But apparently, almost half of the raw pig iron for steel is produced in Ukraine. And since the worst started, they haven't been producing it so that that commodity has been going up and then dipping and coming up and coming down. And they refuse to lock in a price because it's changing so violently. They're not making a profit. So you know, you want everybody to make money and have fun, because that's what makes jobs so good. But sometimes you're like, really, I understand you're making money, but everybody else is losing here. So this is not fun anymore.
Nancy Surak 38:01
Yeah. And then you have like landowners like me, well, in your case, you're in the construction side, but when your guys are bidding deals before they've closed, because most of the time a lot of my developer clients are, they're not closing until they can get their construction money. And so, you know, what I'm saying is, okay, lack of material, higher pricing, and then my landowners are saying, like, we want the biggest, the biggest dollar price we can get. And if they ask for another two weeks, we're gonna raise the price. And I'm like, oh, you know, like, these deals aren't. They're not going to pencil, you know, and I'm like, what, what's going to happen, then?
Brooke May 38:40
Yeah, we can't even hold prices for five days. So that's not even enough time to get bids, filter them out and figure out who's competitive with the complete scope at that point. So gosh, yeah.
Nancy Surak 38:53
So other than, you know, not getting ready made concrete, ready to mix concrete. What are some of the other trends you're seeing in your business right now?
Brooke May 39:02
So it multifamily is in such high demand? You know, hearing housing shortages all over the Tampa Bay area workforce housing shortages, the cost of housing is too expensive. So, you know, I feel like there's always going to be a demand for multifamily and rentals. I mean, condos it's I don't do condos. Let's just talk about that. That's a whole other thing with a whole other Performa, and a whole other, you know, expertise that I do not have. But it's now it's figuring out timelines when we can get them on board, how quickly we can get heads and beds. Our H J's allowing us to face turnover. You know, can we be working on the 10th floor while we're open on the second floor and how does that even logistically work if it can. So it's really just figuring out how fast we can build it. it. And that's part of the whole dilemma with the concrete right now is because we can't even build it.
Nancy Surak 40:07
So you probably don't have much of an idea of what the real timeline is, if you can't find the material.
Brooke May 40:12
I literally while we're sitting here talking, had been texting already mix supplier this morning. And I said, What is going on? And what is your commitment? He said, we've been working on a forecast for the last three weeks, and they can't even put together a forecast of when they can commit concrete again. Well, yeah, wow, that's scary. But I appreciate you sharing all of that and being so open with me and my audience, I'm gonna have to move your podcasts up in the rotation so that it's timely.
Nancy Surak 40:47
So there's so much I could talk to you really literally like all afternoon, you're one of my favorite people in in the market. And in the business. I've loved watching your career. I think we've probably started around the same time. So we've been kind of pretty close neck and neck in terms of, you know, I mean, I'm older than you. But I mean, I got into brokerage when you probably graduated college, so I'm always a big fan of Brooke. So I like to wrap up every podcast with three questions. One question is if a young woman called you and said, Hey, Brooke, I think I want to go into construction management, or I want to be a developer. I just need some advice. Before I get started, what would you tell her?
Brooke May 41:29
Oh, do it, do it, do it. It's a really fun industry. Put on your tough skin by a big pack of big girl panties. And be ready to be on an emotional roller coaster. A lot of good, a lot of bad, a lot internal, a lot external. But when it's all said and done, it's such a rewarding, fun place to be. But girl, learn your stuff, and know your stuff. Because if you don't, they will walk all over you. And also don't be in a hurry, you're not going to graduate college making six figures unless your dad owns the company. So get out, take the job, do the work and construction and you know construction as a whole. You got to have five solid years underneath you doing the grunt work just to even understand how multiple buildings go together, not just one, you can't just be on one project and think you know, it all. Hell, I learned something new on every single project I'm on just because it's so different. But just be open to learning and open to the possibilities and know that it's getting better. It is not like it was 20 years ago, it's not like it was 10 years ago, there are more and more women in operations in this industry. And it's not unattainable. And there's a lot of men who are opening up to it when realizing how thorough and how detailed women are, and needing that on their team. So, you know, women are being sought after for the positions in construction, let alone, you know, just barely making their way in.
Nancy Surak 43:14
Now, awesome, awesome advice. Okay, is there a you told us about your playlist? But is there a book or a podcast that you've read or you listen to that just keeps you kind of hyped and motivated as you move forward throughout your career.
Brooke May 43:28
So I wouldn't say hyped and motivated in my career. But I did. There's two books that whenever women get to a stumbling point in their career, especially in construction, there's two books I personally buy, and put a note in and give it to a young woman and then say if you like this, write a note to somebody else and pass it along. So the first one is called what men don't tell women about business, opening up the heavily guarded alpha male playbook. This guy, let me find the RS Christopher FLEGT, f L E TT. He laid it out there. So if you're a woman who can take it, and you're a woman who will digest it and run with it, this book is for you. And I read it. And some days I just like literally came to tears like oh my god, I was just in that situation. Why did I do this when I should have done this? So that was a good one. The second one is called work with me, the eight blind spots between men and women in business. And this one is strictly about communication. And can I do a little sidebar on this one? Absolutely. Go for it. Okay. So oh, by the way, this is by Barbara Anis and John Gray. I shared with you before that I had a boss that I just didn't really get along with very well. And every time we'd be in a meeting or we'd be in a conversation, I'd be talking and he would just interrupt and Start talking. And Nancy shaking her head, I know this has happened to you before. They just feel like whatever they have to say they can say it no matter where you are in your conversation no matter what is going on with. And it is specifically spoken to in this book. And it talks about how men's brains and women's brains, they're different. It's physiological. It's it, there's testosterone, and estrogen and different things that make women's and men's brain do different stuff. And it talks about how men, when they get a good idea in their head, and they think it's a good idea, they have to see it immediately. Because they won't be able to remember it, while they're trying to listen to you at the same time and comprehend what is going on and what is being said. So I started thinking about this when I was being interrupted, instead of getting upset about it. I just realized, wow, he has his brain can't hold it in. Like, he has to say it right now. But I'm lucky my brain can hold it in. So keep the thought going in your brain, Brooke, listen to what he has to say, go back to where you were, and then engage what he had to say later on. But it was just so I shared that with him. I actually bought him a book and said, You might like this, I learned a lot. And one of the things I told him was about how he interrupts me all the time, and how I realized that the book talks to it about it. And as I was telling him, he interrupted me, he goes, Oh, my God. I do do that all the time. And I said, Yeah, you do. But it's okay. Now I understand why. Because I read this. So it again was a more of a check your crazy book, like, if you think you're having these out of body experiences, because you're the only woman in a room and you cannot figure out why all they can talk about is football, and not get going on the subject. This book really helped with that. So it helped me relate to men more just listening and focusing and understanding where they're coming from, and be able to be a better communicator, because I was coming at it from a different angle instead of God, why are these men? Why don't they understand me? And so I changed it. Why don't I understand men and then did something about it. And ASIC, I love it.
Nancy Surak 47:16
I can't wait to download both of those. Because I listen to audiobooks.
Brooke May 47:20
And I cannot wait, I think they're gonna come in really handy over the next year for me, because of projects I'm working on, I look forward to getting your texts and going, Oh, my God, oh, my.
Nancy Surak 47:32
But you know, it's funny, because I know that there is a difference, I actually have a master's degree in communication. And so I know that there's a difference. And I try to be aware of that. But sometimes I can't help myself either. You know, where I'm like, sometimes you just have to be interruptive to prove a point.
Brooke May 47:48
Yeah. And that's part of the knowledge and the learning. And, you know, sitting in a room in a meeting where the communications happening and see what you'd like about what people are doing and what you don't like about people are doing, right.
Nancy Surak 48:01
But I love that you said, you know, I gave it back to him as well, like you shared what you learned.
Brooke May 48:05
And some people might view that as insulting. But I think that you know what, hopefully that helped him be a better person and a better man in business.
Nancy Surak 48:11
Ultimately, if he read it, you know, like, hopefully, that's how it was taken. And if it wasn't, well, that's okay. You're now sharing it with my audience. And they're going to be giving off these books to folks are reading it themselves. So that will be the benefit. Okay, so finally, the last question really simple if people wanted to keep up with you, our listeners in your career or personally, Are you active on social media? Is there a place where they can kind of follow your either your projects or your business or personal life that you'd be willing to share?
Brooke May 48:45
So promoting women in this industry is so near and dear to my heart. I wish I had a better outlet to get there. That's why we're so happy. Nancy called me and said, Hey, you want to do this podcast? Because yes, I do. I am on LinkedIn. Brooke may be Brooke May. If you want to reach out to me there, I do check that often. I don't have much other social media. But Nancy, if they have a way to reach out to you, and are looking to connect or have any advice through this, I'm always happy to hear Listen, promote, guide. Anything I can do to get more and more smart, capable women in this industry.
Nancy Surak 48:28
Cool. Well, with that, well, we're done. I'm going to wrap up. Finally, Brooke, I want to thank you for for the example A. that you set for all women in our industry. You are really an amazing leader and construction professional and I personally look up to you and I'm really happy that you've seen the success that you've seen in your career. I can't wait to hear what's next on your projects. I can't wait that you've when you're when you're able to text me and say we solved our concrete problem. And then, you know, at least regionally he You're like I helped me, we'll help each other right? So I'm want to help you with other women as well. You helped me with other women and young people to not just women, but folks who want to come into the industry. It's been very, very wonderful for both of us, I think to have our fingers and hands involved in some really remarkable projects. So I want to thank you again. And I look forward to seeing you in person real soon.
Brooke May 50:24
Absolutely. Nancy, thank you so much for having me and always happy to chat. Enjoy your day. Thank you.
Nancy Surak 50:30
Thank you for joining us for another episode of She's Wild the podcast for women and land and development. If you enjoyed today's show, please go out and rate us so that we can be found by other women in our industry. And if you know women who are working in land and development, please share this podcast with them. And if you know a total rock star woman, bad ass chick who is killing it in land and development anywhere in North America. I want to know who she is. Please reach out to me so that I can feature her on an upcoming episode.