This week’s guest on She's Wild, is Alissa Sieben, Sr. Vice President at 2nd Wave Development. After earning her JD and working in land use straight out of law school, Alissa felt the need to make a change and gear her career more toward collaboration, teamwork, and creativity. She joined a local affordable housing firm and subsequently joined 2nd Wave Development founders. Since then, Alissa has worn every hat in the development world and helped grow the 2nd Wave team over the last five years. In this episode, Alissa's shares her journey into development, her love of working on all aspects of building multifamily projects and she tells us how she's grown into a leadership role at 2nd Wave.
Today's guest on She's Wild, is Alissa Sieben, a third generation Tampa native, Alissa has always had a passion for real estate and entrepreneurship. With an experienced grandfather who shared his interests with her, she committed herself to learning the business through a legal lens. After earning her JD and working in land use straight out of law school, Alissa felt the need to make a change and gear her career more toward collaboration, teamwork, and creativity. She joined a local affordable housing firm and was subsequently approached by the 2nd Wave Development founders about joining the team in its infancy.
Alissa has worn every hat in the development world and now, as 2nd Wave’s SVP, she devotes her time to overseeing the teams responsible for design, development, construction, and leasing of the company’s luxury multi-family development projects throughout the southeastern U.S. Helping grow the 2nd Wave team over the last five years has been one of the greatest challenges and honors of Alissa’s life and she cherishes the ability to work collaboratively with such a talented team daily.
In today's episode, we discuss Alissa's journey into development, her love of working on all aspects of building multifamily projects, and how she's grown into a leadership role at 2nd Wave. This show will leave you inspired to pursue your dreams.
Memorable Moments:
8:45 We specifically curate every portion of a project based on what the community wants and needs. And based on the individual history of that community. We have gone through this process and refine everything in house based on what we see. We do a lot of market research, based on what the residents want.
22:43 Someone once told me, I think it was like in jest, that they thought I think that, if I flapped my arms hard enough that I could fly. And I think, it's one of the things I'm most proud of. I think that every woman should truly believe and everybody in general should really believe in themselves. I highly encourage everyone to really try to internalize that viewpoint because it can only create success.
24:38 Don't get discouraged by failure or somebody telling you you can't. Some of the people that I've seen rise the fastest and be the most competent in construction have been women. Because having that different viewpoint in the room is so pivotal, and it makes such a difference. There just are things that women provide to this industry that are different and are incredible. And I would add, always be persistent. If there's something that you want, do not stop trying to go for it.
Connect with Nancy:
Instagram:https://instagram.com/nancysurak
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nancysurak/
Website: www.nancysurak.com
Connect with Alissa:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alissasieben/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/2nd-wave-development/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alissasieben/
https://www.instagram.com/2ndwavedevelopment/
Website: https://www.2ndwavedevelopment.com/
She’s Wild Sound Production by: Luke Surak, Surak Productions: surakproductions@gmail.com
Nancy Surak00:00
Welcome to She's Wild, the podcast for women in land in development. I'm your host, Nancy Surak. I created this podcast as a way to collect conversations of women in the land and development industry. I've been a land broker on the west coast of Florida for nearly 20 years. And I love to empower other women and to tell them about this amazing industry. But I find often that there just aren't enough women being featured on big stages, whether that's at local conferences, or nationally. So I set out to find these women myself, that are killing it in my business across North America that are changing the communities that they live in every single day, whether they're building condos, multifamily, single family, office, or industrial projects, I hope that you will find this space to be inspirational, motivating, and educational. From time to time, I will feature women who are not only in my business, but also career coaches, and motivational speakers. Hello, welcome back to She's Wild, the Podcast for Women in Land and Development. Today we have a special guest, her name is Alissa Sieben. She's the Senior Vice President at 2nd Wave Development, Alissa, welcome to the show. You and I have been getting to know each other well here in the Tampa Bay market. And I'm really excited that you came on because you're a little bit of a powerhouse in the multifamily field here on the west coast of Florida. And I just want to kind of get into all the goodies. But before I do that, I want to allow you an opportunity to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit more about what you do at second wave.
Alissa Sieben01:43
Thank you for having me, Nancy, I really appreciate it by name is Alissa. I originally started my career in land use law and then moved to affordable housing and then switched from portable to luxury multifamily. And so it's been a little bit of a transition. But now I oversee design, development, construction and lease up for a 2nd Wave.
Nancy Surak02:08
Awesome. So you went to law school? Yes. What was your under grad?
Alissa Sieben02:12
Entrepreneurship, actually.
Nancy Surak02:16
So you went to entrepreneurship, then law school, then you got into land use. And then you said, now I want to get into multifamily development.
Alissa Sieben02:23
So basically what happened is I practiced for a year under, after under sorry, after law school, and I didn't really like the law firm culture. You know, I don't know if you're familiar, but most attorneys in my experience, really don't enjoy practicing all that much. And I sort of had the same experience just billing hours, and sort of the culture that goes along with it. It's a very competitive environment. And I'm much more team centered in my approach. So I didn't really feel like the right fit for me. And it was a big risk, right, because I had all these student loans. And it was, it was definitely scary. Switching career fields at that point, because I didn't know anything about development, really. And I was like, Oh, I'm gonna make so much more money in the legal field. But you know, I said, that's not really what life is all about. So I made the switch and I loved affordable, don't get me wrong. But doing you know, multifamily now, market rate, luxury multifamily is just, I feel it really in my element now.
Nancy Surak03:30
Awesome. So what's the biggest difference between I mean, I know what it is for me, and I'm sure your perspective between doing multifamily affordable and luxury, like where's the biggest gap for you?
Alissa Sieben03:41
So in my opinion, I would say that all the regulations around doing affordable is much more cumbersome than anybody could really imagine outside of this industry. In the state of Florida, at least when I was doing it, it was a lottery system. So you sort of you know, got awarded your tax credits based on a lottery system. And then everyone who didn't get awarded would sue the winner. So you have to go through a whole bunch of litigation. Actually, the day that I interviewed at 2nd Wave. I was driving home from Tallahassee after testifying about the way that I submitted this application. And there's so much more red tape. And I think, you know, people outside of this industry would imagine, I think that can be surprising.
Nancy Surak04:30
So little known fact, I've done seven, affordable housing deals a year, and they always take longer than any other Oh, definitely longer than what anyone can anticipate. They're challenging.
Alissa Sieben04:49
Definitely.
Nancy Surak04:50
You know, but I thought you were gonna say, oh, it's the money you can spend. But they talked about the litigation like I lived through that on a few deals. They just die. And then get resurrected?
Alissa Sieben05:02
Yeah.
Nancy Surak05:02
Because it was a, you know, a problem in someone else's application, and then that one gets thrown out, because like you said, they go through litigation. So yeah, but very interesting, such a need. But yeah, the system is kind of broken.
Alissa Sieben05:18
It's a lot of pressure, it's a lot of pressure to put in the applications absolutely perfectly. You have to dot all your I's and cross all your T's and make sure everything is perfect. And it's just very stressful. And so, you know, multifamily development on the market rate side is similar in that you're still developing, you still go through the construction process, but you don't have all of that on the front end. And so it just is like half the job, essentially.
Nancy Surak05:42
So you get to 2nd Wave. And you're like, This is great, right? Yes. Tell me about that. Because you joined I mean, I know a little bit of your background you joined. I think number three, right? You were the third or fourth employee? To tell me what was that like, compared? Because I know you guys have grown a lot. Yeah. What was that, like in the beginning for you guys?
Alissa Sieben06:04
It was, it was great. You know, we were such a small team. And we had so much collaboration, and we all worked on everything I remember, I was one of the ones helping set up the our model in the beginning. And I am not, you know, the greatest at Excel these days, because I haven't touched it in years. But you know, we all made every decision on everything back then. And it was so collaborative. And I just loved that. I mean, you know, I had my undergraduate degree in entrepreneurship. So it really felt like this sort of grassroots experience back then. And now growing that team, we're over 20 now has been so incredible. It's so rewarding. And I've interviewed almost everybody that we've hired. And it's really felt a lot like mine in a way, you know. And so I'm just so I couldn't be more proud or thankful of the team that I have. I love every single person, I could go have a beer with anybody. And you know, my boss became one of my absolute best friends, that process of just spending so much time so closely together for years. Yeah. So when you think back over the last several years, how long have you been there? Almost five years. Okay, so the last five years, when you think back about all the deals that you guys have, have been successful on and been able to do? What's your favorite one? Oh, gosh, okay, so I probably have to say Asbury, which is about 50%. leased up, it's on the corner of Camden Field and Falkenburg. Out in Brandon. And I would say that one because I had my hands in absolutely every part of the process. And I was really close to it all the way through. I mean, I've been close to all the projects until recently. But that one, we had an internal ID team at that time. But we had somebody in place who wasn't incredibly independent with making decisions. So she would give me you know, three samples for everything. And I physically picked all the finishes in that project. And so I have just this incredible sense of pride. It's like my baby in a way that the rest of them probably never will be.
Nancy Surak08:13
That's awesome. So you guys are 50% leased.
Alissa Sieben08:16
Yes.
Nancy Surak08:16
Do you feel like a great proud of? I mean, you said it's your baby. It's like your baby you built it. Right?
Alissa Sieben08:22
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, for sure. And I have, you know, we do things a little bit differently. Like we not many developers have an in house ID team. But we do. And we also have in house marketing, just because I've been through the process with External ID and external marketing. And I just didn't love it. And it wasn't what I wanted. And I ended up you know, for the Asbury website, I literally wrote the copy for that entire website, we specifically curate every portion of a project based on what the community wants and needs. And based on the individual history of that community. So all the floor plans at Asbury I hand drew. You know, we have gone through this process and refine everything in house based on what we see we do a lot of market research, based on what we see the residents are wanting in these areas. So there's a lot of hard work that goes into it as well.
Nancy Surak09:14
I didn't realize that you guys did that. What are some of the questions that you ask when you guys are doing the research? Like what are you asking these folks who live in the area?
Alissa Sieben09:22
Oh my goodness, what is your lifestyle look like? Do you work from home? How many kids do you have? Do you have any pets? You know, what are your storage needs? You know, what kind of activities do you like? I mean, the list is extensive. You can really only ask people a few things at once before they get a little agitated with your you know, willing to not respond. So we try to pick you know, the things that we think are more important, but how do you use the amenities? Which amenities are your favorites? Those kinds of things, I think are really important.
Nancy Surak09:52
So are you seeing any shifts and trends? We're recording this very late in 2022.
Alissa Sieben10:00
Sure.
Nancy Surak10:01
What are the biggest changes that you're seeing right now? Or what are people telling you? They want?
Alissa Sieben10:06
Sure. So I mean, obviously, everybody loves their animals. So animal centered facilities, many dog parks, that's important. We have dog washes as a standard at all of our projects. Now, we have, you know, for a while we had, you know, individuals spaces in clubhouses. And then we were, we switched to have a little bit more segregated spaces because of COVID. And now, I think there's such a rush for everyone to feel like they're part of a community again, that I think that's really important. So we do have, you know, a little bit of a mix, I would say, so we have individual co working spaces. And then we have individual rentable work from home spaces in our club houses and a lot of properties. And we have, we'd like to bring in retail aspects. So people have, you know, different vending machines, but, you know, high class and beautiful ones, of course, but to make life simple and easy for everyone. And then, you know, our outdoor facilities are top notch, I don't know if you've seen the the
Nancy Surak11:13
I have not been on one of your projects yet. I need to
Alissa Sieben11:15
Oh, you really should Asburyl is really a treat. But it's, you know, I've gotten commentary from many other developers that it's the nicest outdoor pool that they've ever seen.
Nancy Surak11:27
Oh, wow. yeah, that's awesome. So I mean, I hear you lighting up about talking to your future residents and working with the design team and sketching things out. When you think about the lifecycle of a development project, what's your personal favorite part?
Alissa Sieben11:42
Oh, my gosh, that's so tough. So I used to do things a lot more hands on, right I was, I would do the due diligence. And then I would do you know, the document planning and production, and then I would oversee construction, and then I would oversee, lease up myself. And now I'm overseeing the people who oversee these things. And so I think, I've always loved the process. But now, as a manager of the people who do these things, now I really am just focused on their personal growth, and on them expanding, you know, their viewpoints on things. So now, but that's become my passion, right? So I just like to ask them questions, to challenge them to give them a little bit of feedback to, you know, support them, and to really help them grow. And so that's become like, my new passion, you know, is really the people. That's awesome. So was that hard for you to kind of let it out, because I am a very controlling, like, I like to control every single part of what I've touch handling to a fault. Oh, it was it was tough. It took, you know, some tough feedback, you know, about me not being able to let things go. And I'm lucky enough to where my best friend works just under me. She's our VP of design. And she gives me that feedback. She's like, you need to let me handle this. And, you know, I, I think that that was really the right thing. It was an incredible awakening for me, where I realized, you know, I need to be doing the things that I want, that I want for me. So I don't like to be managed to, you know, I'm sure my boss can tell you, he pretty much lets me do what I want. And so I was like, this is what, you know, I want to hire people who are capable of doing things independently, who don't need to micromanage. So why am I why am I mad? Why am I managing them that way? You know, so I think I've learned a lot in terms of my management skills over the last couple years.
Nancy Surak13:44
Now. No, I'm sure like, don't we all right. But yeah, because I often think like, Wow, if I had 20 people under me, would I survive? I don't know, if I would I really am a little bit of a control freak.
Alissa Sieben13:58
I'm sure you will you just adapt
Nancy Surak13:59
You know, the the flip side of that, though, is if I could find people who I could respect and think you know, they're on par or better.
Alissa Sieben14:08
Sure.
Nancy Surak14:09
In any decisions I can make, like, I would be ready to rock and roll. That would be exciting.
Alissa Sieben14:14
The hard part is you really DO have to allow people to fail to to know if they're going to work out. That's the really hard part, you know, because you don't want to ever this company is your baby, you know, everything that you're producing is very special to you. So you don't want to see failure, but you have to allow that in order to expand yourself as a manager and to expand the company. Right.
Nancy Surak14:35
So how do you find the ability to move into that leadership role? What have you done from a professional or personal standpoint just to help you become a better leader within the company?
Alissa Sieben14:45
So I have read all the books. Radical Cantor is a really good one. And I've taken management classes, I had a management coach, and so I really pushed myself as much as I could did to get out of my own comfort zone because I didn't know that I would like managing people, you know, I loved doing the things. So I didn't know that I would like the people aspect of the job. And I love it more than doing things myself. So that's sort of been, you know, a surprising aspect of it for me.
Nancy Surak15:18
Thank you for that. Because I think you know, when you a lot of people, especially in the last, I want to say 10 years or so, I feel like people have sort of figured it out on their own. When I started off in my career, there were all these site training, right brands you could take, or do or go to for a day or a weekend or a week. I just don't know if those are as available. A lot of stuff is online now. Yeah. So I'm always curious as to how people develop their own leadership styles and skills set, you know, outside of the office, like outside of just doing it like we're learning. So thank you for sharing that. When you look at the industry where we are currently, I mean, there's a lot of turbulence coming in, especially in the financial markets, getting where we are at, outside of the financial markets, what are some of the bigger challenges you guys are facing in the industry or within your company that you're actively trying to figure out and manage through.
Alissa Sieben16:13
So you know, it's so interesting, because I would say six months ago, my biggest challenge was hiring, you know, recruiting and hiring the right people who fit our culture and fit, you know, with with our vision. And now I would say, my biggest challenge is, you know, the retention of these people in a down market, and also keeping them busy and keeping them happy and excited and working on new things and finding different outlets for them to express their, you know, creativity and drive because we've hired the best people. And so I want to keep them happy, and my people aren't going to be happy unless they're striving for greatness. So I have to kind of think about creative ways to keep them moving and keep them growing.
Nancy Surak16:59
Now, do you guys own keep keep the ownership of your assets? Or do you? Are you a merchant builder and sell some of the assets?
Alissa Sieben17:06
We I would say no, I would not categorize this as a merchant builder. We have sold a couple, just for equity purposes. But I think our I know, our long term goal is to hold as many as we possibly can.
Nancy Surak17:19
So perhaps keeping some of those folks, it's really a matter of making sure that the properties that you own are constantly cutting edge, right?
Alissa Sieben17:28
Sure. Exactly.
Nancy Surak17:29
The latest trends and technology and all sorts of things. Okay, so I didn't ask you this earlier, I usually do earlier in the interview. But I like to ask this question, because just super curious for myself, when you think back of your childhood, Alyssa? Could you have predicted that you would be doing what you're doing today? So funny, you say that?
Alissa Sieben17:50
You know, um, so I was never a rule follower, right. Like, I went to Catholic school, I got detention all the time for wearing the wrong shoes, which is so typical me. But my grandfather was in real estate and, you know, development, he owned, you know, a bulk, you know, a large number of properties and commercial properties in Tampa. And so, I grew up with him going to, you know, stock seminars, when I was like seven years old, you know, he got me involved in everything when I was really young. And my motivation came largely from that. But I was entrepreneurial minded, you know, and I think that that resonates a lot with you know, what I've done the way I've sort of grown my career. So I think in some ways I could say definitely, yes, like, I absolutely could have seen myself doing this, but I think probably if you could ask my teachers, you know, in high school and middle school, they would say, Absolutely not, you know, I don't know what she's gonna do. It's not gonna be anything crazy, because I never followed the rules.
Nancy Surak18:59
That's awesome. Because I'm a total rule follower, right? Out of the lines, like I'm like, because I had the fear of death instilled in me at a young age. Like if you break the rules, you're gonna die. But as an adult, I love breaking the rules. I love just being like, Well, no, I'm going to do it the way I want to do it. Because I mean, what's the worst thing that can happen? I didn't have that as a kid. So I don't know what happened between my childhood and later in life, but I'm like, What's the worst that can happen? I mean, you can die, or you'll get really hurt physically, like at all. It'll all work out. So I think I think that's great that you've been able to leverage that part of yourself though, and say, This is important for me. I like to kind of be out on on the fringe and doing things differently.
Alissa Sieben19:49
Yeah, definitely.
Nancy Surak19:50
So I think that's fantastic. Okay, so I love to wrap up every interview with a series of questions. Okay, a little bit rapid fire but you go on as long as you'd like. You mentioned a book earlier that you love. I know you said you did a lot of reading on leadership. Is there another book or a podcast that you listen to regularly that you find incredibly inspirational, or you think folks listening today should definitely go out and check out?
Alissa Sieben20:18
It's funny, I found your speaking engagement at ULI, the women's event to be like, the most inspirational thing that I had listened to in years. So honestly, what I could recommend to everybody is listening to exactly what you're doing listening to you, I think, you know, especially as a woman, you know, I was, I was inspired in that moment, when you told us to write down three of our goals that we wanted to accomplish this year. And I am actively working on each of those three, which are only going to improve me drastically in my career. So I think that was, that was a really good moment for me. Aside from that, I love the All In Podcast, so I have to, you know, give them a little bit of credit.
Nancy Surak21:04
That's awesome. And I haven't talked on the show about that engagement about the fact that I did a big presentation at the ULI chapter in Tampa, for the women's leadership, but I talked all about the podcasts like things I've learned just from talking to 40 or 50. Women like what are the trends that continue to come through? I'm hoping in the second season of the show that I will be able to share some of that content. And some of those, like bits and pieces, not the whole thing, because it was a long presentation. But it was I mean, just for me sitting down and saying, What am I hearing? What are the trends? And you know, it's one thing when you have friends in the business that you see, you know, like you and I will have breakfast or lunch or something. And you share that, you know, ketchup time, it's totally different when you magnify that by 50 or 70 people. Yeah. And then you start to say, like, Oh, I've heard this, or a string of series of conversations like now 50 times, it's like, repeated over and over. And I'm like, okay, that's no longer antidotal. Like, that's the thing.
Alissa Sieben22:06
Exactly.
Nancy Surak22:07
And so I really, really appreciate the fact that you said it was the most inspirational thing that you've heard, because we forget, we I mean, I think generally, people, women in particular, we get in our careers we get going, if we become mothers, that becomes another part of our life that consumes so much energy and time and mental capacity, that we forget to pause and say, What do I want? Like, what am I working on?
Alissa Sieben22:32
Definitely. And I think we tend to downplay our own abilities at times, you know, whether it be through our own, you know, self criticism, or things that you hear from others. You know, I heard once someone told me, I think it was like in jest, but that I think that, you know, if I flapped my arms hard enough that I could fly. And I think, you know, it might have been a little bit of a slight at the moment, but I'm like, it's one of the things I'm most proud of, like, you know, that. And I think that every woman should truly believe and everybody in general should really believe in. I would like highly encourage everyone to, you know, really try to internalize that viewpoint because it can only create success.
Nancy Surak23:16
100% I actually. Absolutely. 100% love that. You said that? Because I'm like, Well, yes. Isn't that what you want? Yeah. Billy, I first of all, if you believe it enough, and you're like, if I can put enough hard work in, I can do it. I think. I love it. I walk around, and I have this saying that I use a lot. And I don't really know where it came from. But I'm like, yeah, you know, I believe that if you jump for the top of the trees, you're probably not going to hit the ground.
Alissa Sieben23:48
Yeah.
Nancy Surak23:49
If you miss like the branch, right? Like you're going to, if you aim for the top, chances are you're either gonna get pretty close, or you might get a few branches down, you might get a little beat up, but you're not gonna go all the way down. Right? So why not go for the top?
Alissa Sieben24:03
I agree.
Nancy Surak24:03
So I'm with you, Alissa. We'll both be flapping our arms. Leaving, like I can fly. You know, so I absolutely love that. And, you know, one day, I have to, like put that on a coffee mug and send it to you. I can fly bitch. I believe it. Okay, awesome. So if a young woman or young man, were to call you and say, I heard your podcast is super inspirational. I want to get into development. what's some advice you would offer them? Like what would you tell them?
Alissa Sieben24:36
I would say, you know, don't get discouraged by failure or somebody telling you you can't, you know, or the industry being, you know, predominantly geared towards men honestly, you know, some of the people that I've seen risen rise the fastest and be the most competent in construction have been women. Because you know, Even if men don't say it, you know, from time to time, having that different viewpoint in the room is so pivotal, and it makes such a difference. And you're just naturally going to grow. Because, I mean, there just are things that women provide to this industry that are different and are incredible. And I would say, second, you know, the second thing I would suggest is just be persistent. If there's something that you want, do not stop trying to go for it. I had someone message me on LinkedIn, but five different times about an internship. I finally gave him my email address, just because I've been busy. But I gave him my email address. He's emailed me twice. Preston, if you're listening, don't stop emailing me, I will get back to you. And I will probably give him an internship because he keeps putting himself in front of me, and I can tell how much he wants it. So I mean, I think that that's really important.
Nancy Surak25:54
Yeah, I agree. I spent two and a half hours with a young man in my office yesterday. And he wants to get into into Yeah. And it's somebody I've known for years. And he's young guy in his mid 20s. And he's super smart. And I'm like, You sure you don't want to be a broker? Like, I'm like, You sure you don't want to be land broker? And he's like, No, I want to be on the building side, I want to like, like exactly what you described, I want to be able to sketch it out and build it and know that I'm making an impact. And I'm like, I take ownership of all the projects I've been involved with, and I'm just a broker. And he's like, I really want that. And I'm like, just talk to as many people as you can. This one, I told him, I was like, I will open up my contact database. I will tell you who I if I were you who I would want to work with, because people I was like, and I'll, you know, I'll tell you to be careful of not to change your mind. But to go eyes wide open into but I was like, but just talk to whoever you can get a meeting with something, you know, everybody, so he should really listen to you. I don't know everyone. But I do know a lot of people and if I don't know them now, chances are I probably have engaged with them. At some point over the last nearly two decades. I have been known to like, go back, I keep a leather bound journal, write notes and phone calls, phone numbers, notes when I talked to people, and I have all of them for the last 18 years.
Alissa Sieben27:15
Wow.
Nancy Surak27:16
And I keep the bulk of them in my at my home. But I have gone back. Like I'm talking like a decade, like I've gone back and I'm like, okay, I remember this name from around 2011.
Alissa Sieben27:28
Wow
Nancy Surak27:29
I think that deal was in the summer. And I will literally go back through to the calendar. And I'll like look, and my husband keeps telling me you need like the tablet where you can like search for it. Now. I'm like, Okay, well, they didn't have that technology and to live in. And now I mean, I like having those those books. It's like, the story of my career. Yeah. And then if I don't put somebody's phone number in, I'm like, I think I have their phone number. They want a 13 Let me guess. But it's great. Okay, so I know that you often post on LinkedIn, and you talked about, you know, I think I saw one this week or last week where you shared somebody on your teams conversation about design and the role of design and how important it is to know what people want. Outside of LinkedIn, where are their folks, where are other places that people could keep up with you.
Alissa Sieben28:20
Um, I would say LinkedIn is probably the best one. And then, you know, we're constantly posting updates on our website on our second wave website. And then if you want to follow second wave on Instagram, we also our marketing lead is just fantastic. I just love her so much. And so she always keeps everybody up to date with everything that we're doing.
Nancy Surak28:39
And so we'll make sure that we add all of those links. Is there anything else you'd like to point of view or advice you'd like to throw out? Now before we wrap things up?
Alissa Sieben28:51
You know, I would just say, you know, real estate is cyclical. And you know, we are heading into a down market. Well, we've already, we're already in a down market. So it can be potentially discouraging for young people to try to get into the industry right now. But as we talked about, I would just say, you know, stay persistent, open yourself up to learning, do as much self improvement as you can, and you know, on the swing back up, there are going to be many more people hiring. So, you know, don't give up on your dreams.
Nancy Surak29:26
I would second that. And I would also add one of the things that I'm really watching at just a very local level, right, but I think this is consistent for most of the industry. I got in and a lot of the folks were good 20 years older than me when I got in because I got in mid career. Sure. And there was a gap between like 2007 and maybe like 2014 or there were a lot of people that didn't come into the industry. So it was folks who had been for a really long time. And so there's folks, you know, who are newer, there's going to be significant turnover on the backside of whatever we're heading into right now. There are there are so many 85 year old white men that have said over the last 10 years, oh, I'm gonna stay in for the next big run up, and then I'm out. Yeah, you're gonna see a lot of those folks. Yeah, finally retire and say, you know, it's time for me to go ahead and pass the baton on, I think we're going to definitely see that. And it will be there's gonna be huge opportunities coming in. It's gonna be sooner in my opinion than, than what people think.
Alissa Sieben30:43
Definitely, definitely. And if you're competent, and smart and driven, like you can make it in this business. I mean, very quickly.
Nancy Surak30:51
I agree. I want to thank you. It's always so fun talking with you, in person on Zoom, I want to thank you for sharing your experience with the audience here today. It's so important for developer women who are in the development, the pure development space to get on and say like, Hey, I didn't, I didn't study this in school. I figured this out. And I love it. And this is, who I am and where I am. And I want to thank you for your contribution here today.
Alissa Sieben31:18
You're so sweet. Thank you so much for having me. And, moreover, thank you for doing this. I think this is incredibly important. And I think you're really changing the industry.
Nancy Surak31:27
My little bitty legacy piece, right? We are all changing the industry. Anyway, have a great day ahead. And I'll chat with you soon. All right, thank you so much. You bet. Thank you for joining us for another episode of She's Wild the Podcast for Women in Land and Development. If you enjoyed today's show, please go out and rate us so that we can be found by other women in our industry. And if you know women who are working in land and development, please share this podcast with them. And if you know a total rock star woman, badass chick who is killing it in land and development anywhere in North America. I want to know who she is. Please reach out to me so that I can feature her on an upcoming episode.